Was Mary Kelly a Ripper victim?

[MrBarnett]

MJK Taking customers to her room?

This is pretty close, bearing in mind that the room in question may well have been hers a short while before.

[MrBarnett]

What we don't have is any evidence that MJK provided her services in back alleys. I doubt she did in the West End, France or the Highway.

[Busy Beaver]

Perhaps she was an escort who charged blokes what ever she wanted just for being with or even sitting beside her, to make said blokes look good.

[MrBarnett]

Perhaps she was an escort who charged blokes what ever she wanted just for being with or even sitting beside her, to make said blokes look good.

That would imply she was a cut above the other women in the Highway? Not sure why we would think that.

It seems almost certain from research done by Debra that MJK lived for a time at 79, Pennington Street, which has been identified as a brothel. Presumably she took her clients back there.

We've no idea about Cardiff, but I think it's extremely unlikely that she was entertaining clients in shop doorways in the West End, Paris or Pennington Street/Breezer's Hill.

The Highway was notorious for its 'dancing saloons' where prostitutes picked up sailors. Within a 5-minute walk of where Kelly lodged there were apparently 40+ brothels, sometimes little more than a spare room or two in a family home.

Why would she later resort to doing the biz on the streets when she had a room and had been used to operating indoors?

[Fisherman]

Why would she later resort to doing the biz on the streets when she had a room and had been used to operating indoors?

That is a good question. Then again, why would the Ripper opt for a girl selling sex in a room - he seems to have done his hunting on the streets?
Maybe the middle of the road option is that Kelly aquired her customers in the streets - she was known to parade a few of them, according to Dew - and then took them back to Miller´s Court. Including on the night of her death.

That would make a lot of sense to me.

[Batman]

I think that he was more than comfortable being in all these places with his victims because he had been in those very places before with others or maybe even these exact same victims. He knew everything about the place because he had been there before. Hanbury backyard, Miller's Court, Mitre Square, the lot.

[MrBarnett]

That is a good question. Then again, why would the Ripper opt for a girl selling sex in a room - he seems to have done his hunting on the streets?
Maybe the middle of the road option is that Kelly aquired her customers in the streets - she was known to parade a few of them, according to Dew - and then took them back to Miller´s Court. Including on the night of her death.

That would make a lot of sense to me.

Hi Fish,

Yes, that would be the Ratcliff Highway model, I think. Pick up your client on the street or in a pub, and then take him back to your room.

Gary

[MrBarnett]

I think that he was more than comfortable being in all these places with his victims because he had been in those very places before with others or maybe even these exact same victims. He knew everything about the place because he had been there before. Hanbury backyard, Miller's Court, Mitre Square, the lot.

Why would you think that?

[Fisherman]

Hi Fish,

Yes, that would be the Ratcliff Highway model, I think. Pick up your client on the street or in a pub, and then take him back to your room.

Gary

Yes. And much as not all will agree, I think that the suggestion that she did just that after having entertained Blotchy is a very credible one. To me, the more likely thing is that she made contact with her killer on the streets.

[Batman]

Why would you think that?

Why would I think that? Steven Wright, the Suffolk Strangler comes to mind and the fact JtR was comfortable even fenced off in a Hanbury Street backyard where the public wouldn't generally go at all except for the lodgers. Same with Miller's court.

[MrBarnett]

In order of credibility (just my opinion):

MJK solicited on Commercial Street etc and took her clients back to her room, charging the appropriate price.

MJK solicited on Commercial Street etc and took her clients into the nearest dark corner for a 4d quickie.

13, Miller's Court was a known brothel and clients made appointments to visit.

[MrBarnett]

Why would I think that? Steven Wright, the Suffolk Strangler comes to mind and the fact JtR was comfortable even fenced off in a Hanbury Street backyard where the public wouldn't generally go at all except for the lodgers. Same with Miller's court.

And it would take, what 10 - 20 visits to understand how often people visited these places? We're told that people often sheltered in the hallway of 29, Hanbury Street, and surely the residents occasionally used the bog. The more often you visited these places, the more likely you'd be to encounter others using them, passing through.

[Batman]

And it would take, what 10 - 20 visits to understand how often people visited these places? We're told that people often sheltered in the hallway of 29, Hanbury Street, and surely the residents occasionally used the bog. The more often you visited these places, the more likely you'd be to encounter others using them, passing through.

It would only take one visit to have an idea of how to get there, how to get back out and what to look out for at that time of day, but the more the better. The streets themselves obviously more visits and experience with.

JtR would have met many women who couldn't pay their doss money and learned what they did at those hours and where they went and where they would go with their doss money after. He could learn how they avoided beats.

If PCs had kept a record of clients found in these places prior to the autumn of terror then they would have likely met the ripper.

[MrBarnett]

It would only take one visit to have an idea of how to get there, how to get back out and what to look out for at that time of day, but the more the better. The streets themselves obviously more visits and experience with.

JtR would have met many women who couldn't pay their doss money and learned what they did at those hours and where they went and where they would go with their doss money after. He could learn how they avoided beats.

If PCs had kept a record of clients found in these places prior to the autumn of terror then they would have likely met the ripper.

So what might he have learned from a single previous visit to Hanbury Street? That people didn't use the hallway as a shelter?; that the residents never used the privy at the time in the morning that many workmen were leaving for work?; that very few people walked down Hanbury Street in the early morning on their way to Spitalfields Market or the City?

[c.d.]

I think people are ignoring what to my mind is the most likely scenario which is Kelly meeting her client in a pub a few days prior to her killing. He buys her drinks and she tells him to come by her place some night soon. This solves the problem of her going out late on a cold, rainy night to solicit and why she would open her door and invite her killer in.

c.d.