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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Police Officials and Procedures > General Police Discussion

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  #11  
Old 06-26-2017, 12:30 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pcdunn View Post
I was told that a number of things led to the loss of the Ripper Files:
-- destruction in the War
-- shortage of paper, so old files were re-used
-- possible theft by police staff wanting mementos,
-- just general loss and destruction over the years.

Is it also true that some items have been slipped into file folders after they were requested for study?
Have other historical murder files been subject to the same types of loss?

Pierre
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  #12  
Old 06-26-2017, 01:45 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Hi,

do you have a source for that "controversy"?

Cheers, Pierre
Yes. It is mentioned in a discussion thread about the MJK3 photo in the Casebook forums. Do you wish a link to the thread?
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  #13  
Old 06-26-2017, 01:54 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Have other historical murder files been subject to the same types of loss?

Pierre
I don't know. It seems reasonable to assume that many historical documents have fallen prey to loss by warfare, fire, natural disasters such as flood and earthquake, etc. To mention one example from my knowledge as a librarian, the Great Library at Alexandria was destroyed in ancient times.

If historical documents can be lost and destroyed, why not the records of historical murders?

But this is all supposition... We don't really know.
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Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
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  #14  
Old 06-26-2017, 02:27 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Have other historical murder files been subject to the same types of loss?

Pierre
Yes..
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  #15  
Old 06-29-2017, 07:13 AM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Have other historical murder files been subject to the same types of loss?

Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Haven't been around the threads recently, though I read some.

I suspect that thefts from some of the other files occurred, though I specifically don't know of any. The Ripper file, being the one of Britain's most famous unsolved murder case, would have been a natural magnet for people seeking souvenirs, although logic should have dictated leaving the contents together. I am aware that Donald Rumbelow did comment on the Ripper file and the file on the Houndsditch Murders (the Siege of Sidney Street, in 1910) in his books on those cases. But of missing materials elsewhere, I can't be certain.

In the U.S. police departments habitually got rid of material that no longer was "needed". About a dozen or so years back I read a book about the source of James Cain's novel, "Double Indemnity" (also a movie with Barbara Stanwyck and Fred McMurray), the 1927 Ruth Snyder-Judd Gray Murder in New York's borough of Queens (where I live, by the way). There was plenty of material, but the trial transcripts no longer exist, and newspaper accounts had to be used. This is true, of many old and celebrated New York Cases. The development of microfilm and microfiche has changed this (as well as comperization) but it has come too late to save many items we would have liked to have kept.

Jeff
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  #16  
Old 08-23-2017, 09:58 AM
DarkPassenger DarkPassenger is offline
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I supposed a visitor's log for the Seaside Home circa 1891 is too much to ask for

How about the constant references I keep seeing for the Yard's "announcement" of Jack being a Jew in an asylum? Did the Yard make a big deal of this prior to Anderson making his autobiography claims?
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  #17  
Old 08-23-2017, 10:14 AM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi Dark Passenger,

The 1891 Census [5th April] provides a glimpse of the staff and types of patients then at the Seaside Home.

It was certainly not an environment into which you might risk sending Jack the Ripper, whether he was Kosher or Goy.

Regards,

Simon
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  #18  
Old 08-23-2017, 10:40 AM
Natasha Natasha is offline
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It was Donald Rumbelow (correct me if I'm wrong) who commented that Kelly was pregnant. Where did he get that info from? If he saw files that said that, where did they disappear to?

Bit fishy that alot of stuff has gone missing. I know alot of stuff got destroyed in the war, but I find it kinda amazing that files of all kinds, unrelated to the ripper case, are still available, yet we have alot of missing stuff related to the ripper case.

I think I remember someone on here, can't remember who, said that they know a family who has some photos etc of the victims or paper work something to that effect anyway, and that they've seen them.
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  #19  
Old 08-23-2017, 11:19 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natasha View Post
but I find it kinda amazing that files of all kinds, unrelated to the ripper case, are still available
Really?

Here's an exercise for you to do Natasha.

Go the online National Archives catalogue and search for all files within the Metropolitan Police series (MEPO) for the entire decade of 1880 to 1890 which contain the word "murder".

Do you know how many results you will get?

I'll tell you: 106

Of those 106 results, guess how many relate to the Whitechapel murders?

I'll tell you: 103

In fact, the true answer is probably 104 because one of the remaining 3 files relates to the death of a woman in Poplar in December 1888 that some consider to be a Ripper murder (and she has a chapter in the JTR sourcebook).

Of the remaining two files, one relates to an attempted murder of some constables. The other involved a murder case in 1887 where the police were criticised.

On those numbers, I'm not convinced your argument stacks up.
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  #20  
Old 08-23-2017, 11:28 AM
Natasha Natasha is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
Really?

Here's an exercise for you to do Natasha.

Go the online National Archives catalogue and search for all files within the Metropolitan Police series (MEPO) for the entire decade of 1880 to 1890 which contain the word "murder".

Do you know how many results you will get?

I'll tell you: 106

Of those 106 results, guess how many relate to the Whitechapel murders?

I'll tell you: 103

In fact, the true answer is probably 104 because one of the remaining 3 files relates to the death of a woman in Poplar in December 1888 that some consider to be a Ripper murder (and she has a chapter in the JTR sourcebook).

Of the remaining two files, one relates to an attempted murder of some constables. The other involved a murder case in 1887 where the police were criticised.

On those numbers, I'm not convinced your argument stacks up.
Duh.. sorry I forgot to add that I meant files alot older then that. And not necessarily exclusive to murder. For instance important historical documents that are centuries old. Alot older then the ripper case.
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