Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - by Sam Flynn 3 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - by Sam Flynn 5 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - by Batman 9 minutes ago.
Scene of the Crimes: The Bucks Row Project Summary Report. - by Fisherman 21 minutes ago.
Scene of the Crimes: The Bucks Row Project Summary Report. - by Fisherman 25 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - by Trevor Marriott 26 minutes ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Mary Ann Nichols: What Direction Was Polly Travelling When She Was Killed? - (42 posts)
Scene of the Crimes: The Bucks Row Project Summary Report. - (31 posts)
Klosowski, Severin (George Chapman): Can George Chapmam reform himself to being a calculating poisoner seven years later?. - (7 posts)
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - (5 posts)
Bury, W.H.: Bury's friend - (3 posts)
A6 Murders: A6 Rebooted - (2 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Lechmere/Cross, Charles

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #871  
Old 09-13-2018, 01:12 AM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,795
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Thanks gary
I agree.

I think people need to also remember that even with all this back and forth debate that no one has yet to totally debunk any of the points in favor of his suspect hood. None of the points fish argues has been ruled out.

I also find it extremely interesting that ma lech owned a cats meat shop, and the posibility that the young lech was around alot of butchery and gore and ma lech in charge.
The fact that no one has totally debunked any of the points in favor of Lechmere as a suspect means nothing. Lechmere was a witness and some crackpot has drawn up a bunch of **** in a vain attempt to turn him into a suspect. With the points as they are it's up to said crackpot to prove these points not for others to disprove them. Also on the subject of cat meat butchers there is evidence Bury was at one point a cat meats butcher.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #872  
Old 09-13-2018, 01:45 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is online now
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 2,823
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
I don't see anything odd in that photo of (the older) CAL and, besides, the nature of photography at the time lent itself to people adopting unnatural expressions..
Yes, and Patricia Cornwell seems to have been captivated by that sinister photo of Sickert.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #873  
Old 09-13-2018, 01:50 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: South london
Posts: 4,342
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
Abby,

You've seen the photo of CAL, right?

I'm with you on the 'visceral feel' thing. Science doesn't come into it. Just imagine being Robert Paul and being confronted by that visage.

Not saying Lech is my man, but anyone who dismisses him as a 'crap suspect' is talking crap.

Gary
I agree on not dismissing him Gary, but lets not use how he looks in a photo, while i know what you mean, the very same can be said for man photos of suspects.


Seriously, he is not a "crap suspect" by a very long way, he is one of less than 20 who can even be considered viaable in my view from the 300+ mentioned.



All the best


Steve
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #874  
Old 09-13-2018, 01:59 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,090
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
I agree on not dismissing him Gary, but lets not use how he looks in a photo, while i know what you mean, the very same can be said for man photos of suspects.


Seriously, he is not a "crap suspect" by a very long way, he is one of less than 20 who can even be considered viaable in my view from the 300+ mentioned.



All the best


Steve
Are you suggesting that just because he found the body that makes him a suspect. There is not one scrap of evidence that points to him being regarded as suspect in the murder of Nicholls or any other of the women. He is crap suspect.

In the grand scheme of things, evidence is what suspects are based on not personal opinions, if that were the case there would be no unsolved crimes in the world.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #875  
Old 09-13-2018, 02:02 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: South london
Posts: 4,342
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Conversely, anyone who thinks he is a suspect based on what is known is also talking the same crap

www.trevormarriott.co.uk.
Trevor,

I may disagree with you here, not for the first time, but i trust not too seriously tbis time. I think one can refer to CAL as a viable suspect because he lived local, was in the area at the time and may have had the opportunity (heavily dependent on TOD, of course).
Almost sounds like i am defending the pro Lechmere cause.

However saying he is viable does not make him a good suspect. He is far better than any named who were not in London, or who are accounted for elsewhere at the time. Those are the "crap" suspects.

He remains in my 3rd rung of possibilities close to crossing to the 2nd team so to speak, but the promise from earlier performances has not be fulfilled with any solid evidence to justify that promotion.

Of course he would not be a suspect in police terms, but then few if any would be.


Steve

Last edited by Elamarna : 09-13-2018 at 02:14 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #876  
Old 09-13-2018, 02:10 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: The West Midlands
Posts: 2,550
Default

As with all suspects there are varying degrees in people’s opinions on Lechmere’s candidature. No one will be surprised when I say that my own position is that I’m, at the very least, as confident that Lechmere wasn’t the ripper as Fish is that he was. I understand ‘interest’ in him and I accept that like 99% of suspects he cannot be categorically exonerated but I see very little there apart from the fact that he was there at the time. It baffles me how someone can feel ‘confident’ about him. Well, actually it doesnt
__________________
Regards

Herlock






"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #877  
Old 09-13-2018, 02:20 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 10,760
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
he is one of less than 20 who can even be considered viable in my view from the 300+ mentioned.
I wonder if he'd be in the Top Twenty if we factored in the 3,000+ (or whatever) potential Rippers that are yet to be mentioned, all of whom lived closer to the epicentre of the murders than Cross.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #878  
Old 09-13-2018, 03:15 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Romford
Posts: 1,765
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wheat View Post
The fact that no one has totally debunked any of the points in favor of Lechmere as a suspect means nothing. Lechmere was a witness and some crackpot has drawn up a bunch of **** in a vain attempt to turn him into a suspect. With the points as they are it's up to said crackpot to prove these points not for others to disprove them. Also on the subject of cat meat butchers there is evidence Bury was at one point a cat meats butcher.
Is there evidence that Bury was a cat's meat butcher? Or just a reference to his having worked for a horse-slaughterer? Knackers were required by law to keep detailed records of all the animals they processed and the larger firms employed clerks to do so. Bury was a factor's clerk at one point, wasn't he? I think it's far more likely that he would have been keeping the knacker's books than slaughtering.

As Abby says Ma Lechmere was at one stage running a cat's meat business, but as far as I know there's no evidence that she was doing so in or prior to 1888.

There is some evidence that makes me think it's likely that CAL at some stage carried horse flesh for Harrison, Barber. But that would most likely have been boiled meat that already had the bones removed. Preparing that for retail sale would have required next to nothing in the way of butchery skills or equipment.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #879  
Old 09-13-2018, 03:28 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Romford
Posts: 1,765
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
I wonder if he'd be in the Top Twenty if we factored in the 3,000+ (or whatever) potential Rippers that are yet to be mentioned, all of whom lived closer to the epicentre of the murders than Cross.
Gareth, I know you disapprove of the use of this word, but how many of those 3,000 were found with a recently killed victim?

Robert Paul is trudging to work in the wee small hours and spies a man a short distance away from a prostrate women whom he subsequently discovers had been horribly murdered. A man with those hooded, reptilian eyes��. I bet he had his doubts about Lechmere.

Epicentre, schmepicentre. Let me ask you a question. If a man who lived in the City developed homicidal tendencies and decided to go out and slaughter prostitutes in the early morning would he be more likely to hang about outside the Bank of England looking for victims or take a walk to Spitalfields or Whitechapel?

As Sir Edmund Hilary might have said if he had been asked why he'd murdered women near the Whitechapel Road, Commercial Street and Aldgate - 'Because they were there.'

Last edited by MrBarnett : 09-13-2018 at 03:32 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #880  
Old 09-13-2018, 03:29 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 10,760
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
that would most likely have been boiled meat that already had the bones removed. Preparing that for retail sale would have required next to nothing in the way of butchery skills or equipment.
Jack the Mincer.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.