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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Lechmere/Cross, Charles

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  #801  
Old 09-11-2018, 01:31 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
...who has all the training and expertise to know what he is talking about.
I do, and I do not agree with Griffiths with the way that he said what he said.

He said what he said, because thats how the program makers wanted it to be so,

I have done these programs before and I can tell you exactly how it works.

The expert is in front of the camera and someone off screen will ask him question, that question is not recorded but the answer is.

For example
Q. Would you say that based on what is before you Lechmere is a prime suspect?

Now he cannot simply answer yes, because it would not sit well and would be out of context. So he is asked to in a round about way repeat the question in his answer

example "I believe that based on the evidence before me Lechmere is a prime suspect" a compelling answer for the viewers and 10 brownie points for the program makers, having got what they wanted.

Now of course the question is what has been presented to the expert for him to come to his conclusion ?

and this is the rub of the green. As you know I spoke to Scobie in person following the program airing, and he clearly had not been presented with the full facts, and quite openly stated that although there may be a prima facie case on what was presented to him it would never have got to trial, and I would suggest that if he had been presented with the full facts he would have been even reluctant to suggest there was a prima facie case.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
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  #802  
Old 09-11-2018, 01:43 AM
harry harry is offline
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It became ridiculous from the very first post suggesting Cross killed Nichols,and it has become utterly ridiculous on account of the misleading and manipulating schemes to sustain a case against Cross.
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  #803  
Old 09-11-2018, 02:26 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Oh, my, how upset we are! The Ripper community is being ripped by a lying documentary that twists the facts! We are all at danger of being scammed! All but for one - Steve to the rescue!

You know, I used to think you were very unimaginative, but it seems I was wrong.
Another morning, and more inane post requiring replies.


out of ones own mouth, and so very accurate.
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  #804  
Old 09-11-2018, 02:33 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Question away. I cannot say more than this: it is a sad thing when criticism must start from a point of how something presented by an expert in a docu should not be believed, especially when no evidence whatsoever can be presented that this was so.
Misrepresenting what is said, what a surprise!
no one is saying we should not beleive an expert, what is said is that the opinion of an expert is not necessarily the only view on an issue, quite a different thing from saying we do not beleive an expert.

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It goes hand in hand with the allegations of me not being truthful or only pointing to different matters because I am infatuated with lechmere.

If you can´t shoot down the message, shoot the messenger instead. If you do not like what an expert says, lead on that he or she has been misinformed, bribed or threatened.

That´s how we work out here, right?

The problem is that we are indeed shooting the message, not the messenger, to suggest we are not debating the issues is disengenious.


Steve
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  #805  
Old 09-11-2018, 02:34 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
...who has all the training and expertise to know what he is talking about.

As opposed to ... la-di-da!
YES, still just an opinion, not Fact or definitive.


Steve
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  #806  
Old 09-11-2018, 02:39 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
As I say, I did not think your were this inventive.

I have never lied or consciously misrepresented a single thing out here. To say I have, is to be at fault. I may be wrong, and I may express myself badly, but that is another matter.

Claiming foul play on my behalf is lowering yourself into a bog of lies. That is all I have to say on the issue.


The contents of that thread speak for themselves.
No, need for any invention on my part at all, just my normal boring self, pointing out the facts.



Steve
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  #807  
Old 09-11-2018, 02:48 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
No more than four minutes elapsed from the moment Paul saw Lechmere up until the point when they met Mizen. And yes, it is remarkable to come up with the sort of story Lechmere came up with if he was the killer. It would predispose very cool and quick thinking, with no panick involved and a talent for lying.

Guess what category of people would be best suited to do that?

As for the "what if´s", I have sadly run right out of interest with them.
And again we see this strict interpretation that the times must be pricise, Paul says no more than 4 minutes so that must be correct.

And of course unless he had a watch he checked when he saw Lechmere and checked it again when he saw Mizen, its just a guess.

Is it possible to test this and see if the period of 4 minutes is realistic? Yes it is, and such testing suggested it may be a very goodestimate by Paul; but to state as fact it took no more than 4 minutes is pushing it too far and a common fault.



Steve
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  #808  
Old 09-11-2018, 03:34 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
No more than four minutes elapsed from the moment Paul saw Lechmere up until the point when they met Mizen. And yes, it is remarkable to come up with the sort of story Lechmere came up with if he was the killer. It would predispose very cool and quick thinking, with no panick involved and a talent for lying.

Guess what category of people would be best suited to do that?

As for the "what if´s", I have sadly run right out of interest with them
.
Hardly likely seeing as your baseless case against Lechmere relies on them for ballast.

If he was employing ‘cool and quick’ thinking he’d have scarpered, rather than put himself in that position in the first place, despite what Sherlock Griffiths came up with.
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  #809  
Old 09-11-2018, 03:35 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
I do, and I do not agree with Griffiths with the way that he said what he said.

He said what he said, because thats how the program makers wanted it to be so,

I have done these programs before and I can tell you exactly how it works.

The expert is in front of the camera and someone off screen will ask him question, that question is not recorded but the answer is.

For example
Q. Would you say that based on what is before you Lechmere is a prime suspect?

Now he cannot simply answer yes, because it would not sit well and would be out of context. So he is asked to in a round about way repeat the question in his answer

example "I believe that based on the evidence before me Lechmere is a prime suspect" a compelling answer for the viewers and 10 brownie points for the program makers, having got what they wanted.

Now of course the question is what has been presented to the expert for him to come to his conclusion ?

and this is the rub of the green. As you know I spoke to Scobie in person following the program airing, and he clearly had not been presented with the full facts, and quite openly stated that although there may be a prima facie case on what was presented to him it would never have got to trial, and I would suggest that if he had been presented with the full facts he would have been even reluctant to suggest there was a prima facie case.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Exactly Trevor.

And yet he keeps getting quoted
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  #810  
Old 09-11-2018, 03:39 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
He was asked to assess the case for the prosecution and found it excellent. I´m sure though, that if you had been around to tell him that you don´t think Lechmere did it, he would have changed his mind pronto.
The fact that you don’t believe that, to come to a valid assessment, an expert needs to see the full picture, speaks absolute volumes about your method of arriving at a conclusion.
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