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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Police Officials and Procedures > Littlechild, Chief Inspector John George

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  #131  
Old 12-05-2011, 02:14 AM
robhouse robhouse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
Any thoughts about the Ripper theory which appeared a month before Farquharson?
Hello Simon,

What theory would that be then?

Rob H
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  #132  
Old 12-05-2011, 02:41 AM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi Rob,

Later Leaves, Volume II. Montagu Williams Q.C. January 1891—

"I have something to say in reference to the Whitechapel murders that I think will be read with interest by many of my readers.

"Without entering into the details of those horrible tragedies, I may mention that they all occurred within the Worship Street and Thames districts, and that, as I foresaw the possibility of the assassin, if arrested, being brought before me, I made it my business to personally visit all the scenes of the crimes, and to make what medical and other inquiries I thought desirable.

"As my readers are aware, the murderer has not been arrested; but a curious set of circumstances which tend, perhaps, to throw light upon the mystery came to my knowledge at the time.

"For excellent reasons, I shall abstain, at any rate at present, from entering into the details of this matter.

"It is not, however, that I lack the necessary permission of the person principally interested. He has placed in my possession all the documents relating to this matter, and has unreservedly given me permission to make whatever use of them I like. The reasons for my reticence are concerned merely with the interests of justice.

"I was sitting alone one afternoon, on a day on which I was off duty, when a card was brought to me, and I was informed that the gentleman whose name it bore desired that I would see him.

"My visitor was at once shown in. He explained that he had called for the purpose of having a conversation with me with regard to the perpetrator, or perpetrators, of the East End murders. He had, he said, taken a very great interest in the matter, and had set on foot a number of inquiries that had yielded a result which, in his opinion, afforded an undoubted clue to the mystery, and indicated beyond any doubt the individual, or individuals, on whom this load of guilt rested.

"My visitor handed me a written statement in which his conclusions were clearly set forth, together with the facts and calculations on which they were based; and, I am bound to say, this theory—for theory it, of necessity, is—struck me as being remarkably ingenious and worthy of the closest attention.

"Besides the written statement, this gentleman showed me copies of a number of letters that he had received from various persons in response to the representations he had made. It appeared that he had communicated his ideas to the proper authorities, and that they had given them every attention.

"Of course, the theory set forth by my visitor may be a correct one or it may not. Nothing, however, has occurred to prove it fallacious during the many months that have elapsed since the last of this terrible series of crimes.

"As I have said, I cannot take the reader into my confidence over this matter, as, possibly, in doing so I might be hampering the future course of justice. One statement, however, I may make, and, inasmuch as it is calculated to allay public fears, I do so with great pleasure. The cessation of the East End murders dates from the time when certain action was taken as a result of the promulgation of these ideas."

ENDS

February 1891—Farquharson.

Regards,

Simon
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  #133  
Old 12-05-2011, 02:58 AM
Stewart P Evans Stewart P Evans is offline
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To Stewart
We will just have to agree to disagree on that one.
Browne says that these chiefs disagreed but Mac did not disagree about Browne missed, possibly because he misunderstood the import of Mac's memoirs. He was certainly ignorant of the Mac Report official version, and thus ignorant altogether about Druitt whom Mac believed, rightly or wrongly, was the fiend 'some years after' he took his own life..
...
The suggestion here was not that Browne had seen Macnaghten's 1894 report but that he had seen an official report that subsequently went missing but which stated that the Ripper had been identified with the leader of a plot to assassinate Balfour. Which is, of course, possible. It is certainly more likely than your suggestion that Browne made the wrong interpretation of Woodhall's writings.
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  #134  
Old 12-05-2011, 03:00 AM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Hello Simon. Huh? Farqy wrote that?

Cheers.
LC
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  #135  
Old 12-05-2011, 03:04 AM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi Lynn,

No. Farqy's story appeared a month after Williams' anecdote.

Regards,

Simon
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  #136  
Old 12-05-2011, 03:05 AM
Stewart P Evans Stewart P Evans is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
...
"My visitor handed me a written statement in which his conclusions were clearly set forth, together with the facts and calculations on which they were based; and, I am bound to say, this theory—for theory it, of necessity, is—struck me as being remarkably ingenious and worthy of the closest attention.
"Besides the written statement, this gentleman showed me copies of a number of letters that he had received from various persons in response to the representations he had made. It appeared that he had communicated his ideas to the proper authorities, and that they had given them every attention.
"Of course, the theory set forth by my visitor may be a correct one or it may not. Nothing, however, has occurred to prove it fallacious during the many months that have elapsed since the last of this terrible series of crimes.
"As I have said, I cannot take the reader into my confidence over this matter, as, possibly, in doing so I might be hampering the future course of justice. One statement, however, I may make, and, inasmuch as it is calculated to allay public fears, I do so with great pleasure. The cessation of the East End murders dates from the time when certain action was taken as a result of the promulgation of these ideas."
ENDS
February 1891—Farquharson.
...
Simon
As we all know (or should do), the visitor referred to here was the persistent early Ripperologist E.K. Larkins, Anderson's 'troublesome busybody' with his Portuguese sailor(s) theory.
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  #137  
Old 12-05-2011, 03:09 AM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi Stewart,

I said you knew a thing or three.

I didn't know that, so excuse me while I stand in the corner for the rest of the lesson.

Regards,

Simon
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  #138  
Old 12-05-2011, 03:12 AM
Stewart P Evans Stewart P Evans is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
Hi Stewart,
I said you knew a thing or three.
I didn't know that, so excuse me while I stand in the corner for the rest of the lesson.
Regards,
Simon
To be quite honest Simon I am heartily sick of Ripperology and the nonsense it carries with it. I may soon retire from the subject altogether and let it go its merry way.
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  #139  
Old 12-05-2011, 03:28 AM
Jonathan H Jonathan H is offline
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To Simon

Can you cut and paste what you are talking about re: Sims as I cannot find what you are referring to? Or, show me the sources you are referring to so I can look them up myself.

I hope you are right?

To Lynn

Oh, for sure and if Macnaghten had given us more on this there would be no 'Ripperology' at all.

This is about all we have, and it understndably inspires multiple interpretations:

'The Bristol Times and Mirror', Feb 11th, 1891

"I give a curious story for what it is worth. There is a West of England member who in private declares that he has solved the mystery of 'Jack the Ripper.' His theory - and he repeats it with so much emphasis that it might almost be called his doctrine - is that 'Jack the Ripper' committed suicide on the night of his last murder. I can't give details, for fear of a libel action; but the story is so circumstantial that a good many people believe it. He states that a man with blood-stained clothes committed suicide on the night of the last murder, and he asserts that the man was the son of a surgeon, who suffered from homicidal mania. I do not know what the police think of the story, but I believe that before long a clean breast will be made, and that the accusation will be sifted thoroughly."

Notice claims that the writer claims to have witheld the libellous details.

Except for one more referenc the following year -- in which Farquharason was named -- the story vanished (an 1892 article by another Tory backbencher who claims that the 'West of England' MP story is probably wrong since a top police source alleges that they are watchihg a chief suspect day and night, and have prevented more muders.)

Dagonet (Sims) in 'The Referee', Feb 16th, 1902

'The homicidal maniac who

Shocked the World as Jack the Ripper

had been once - I am not sure that it was not twice - in a lunatic asylum. At the time his dead body was found in the Thames, his friends, who were terrified at his disappearance from their midst, were endeavouring to have him found and placed under restraint again.'


And on April 5th 1903 Sims wrote I think a veiled version of Macnaghten meeting with the Druitts, or a Druitt in 1891 -- not that Sims knew this:

'A little more than a month later the body of the man suspected by the chiefs at the Yard, and by his own friends, who were in communication with the Yard, was found in the Thames. The body had been in the water about a month.'


And again on Sept 22nd 1907 in [b]Lloyds Weekly -- My Criminal Museum: Who was Jack the Ripper? Sims refers to this encounter between Mac and the family in veiled form:

'The doctor had been an inmate of a lunatic asylum for some time, and had been liberated and regained his complete freedom.

After the maniacal murder in Miller's-court the doctor disappeared from the place in which he had been living, and his disappearance caused inquiries to be made concerning him by his friends who had, there is reason to believe, their own suspicions about him, and these inquiries were made through the proper authorities.


'A month after the last murder the body of the doctor was found in the Thames. There was everything about it to suggest that it had been in the river for nearly a month.'

Then Macnaghten came from behind his famous crony and began to finally speak and write about the case, in public, himself.

Washington Post (Washington, D.C.)
4 June 1913


'FATE OF JACK THE RIPPER
Retiring British Official Says Once Famous Criminal Committed Suicide
London Cable to the New York Tribune
The fact that "Jack the Ripper", the man who terrorized the East End of London by the murder of seven women during 1888, committed suicide, is now confirmed by Sir Melville Macnaughten, head of the criminal investigation department of Scotland Yard, who retired on Saturday after 24 years' service.

Sir Melville says:

"It is one of the greatest regrets of my life that "Jack the Ripper" committed suicide six months before I joined the force.

That remarkable man was one of the most fascinating of criminals. Of course, he was a maniac, but I have a very clear idea as to who he was and how he committed suicide, but that, with other secrets, will never be revealed by me."


(interestingly in 'The Daily Mail' version of this story, Mac claims that he started at the Force on May 24th 1889. In his 1914 memoirs he denies ever saying what he did say, that he regreeted being 'six months too late to have a go at' hunting the fiend. But in that book he moves the date of his start to June 1st 1889 -- which is virtually six months to the day that Druitt took his own life?)

With this more candid version if you think about what he was up to with Sims in the previous fourteen years:

Pittsburgh Press
6 July 1913


'Following out his observation regarding the necessity of the ideal detective "keeping his mouth shut," Macnaughton (sic) carried into retirement with him knowledge of the identity of perhaps the greatest criminal of the age, Jack the Ripper, who terrorized Whitechapel in 1888 by the fiendish mutilation and murder of seven women.
"He was a maniac, of course, but not the man whom the world generally suspected," said Sir Melville. "He committed suicide six months before I entered the department, and it is the one great regret of my career that I wasn't on the force when it all happened. My knowledge of his identity and the circumstances of his suicide came to me subsequently. As no good purpose could be served by publicity, I destroyed before I left Scotland Yard every scrap of paper bearing on the case. No one else will ever know who the criminal was - nor my reasons for keeping silent."



And in 1914. 'Mac' somewhat undercut 'Tatcho's' tale:

Sir Melville Macnaghten
'Days of My Years', Chapter IV: 'Laying the Ghost of Jack the Ripper',

'Although, as I shall endeavour to show in this chapter, the Whitechapel murderer, in all probability, put an end to himself soon after the Dorset Street affair in November i888, certain facts, pointing to this conclusion, were not in possession of the police till some years after I became a detective officer.'

I am just putting together two bits of data:

Mac's information received 'some years after ...', plus Sims' claims that the 'friends' (eg. family) were in touch with the Yard on this matter -- and for 'Yard' read just Mac and all his proprietorial assertions ('... came to me subsequently ...').
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  #140  
Old 12-05-2011, 03:31 AM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi Stewart,

You'd be sorely missed.

Regards,

Simon
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