Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - by Batman 9 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - by Sam Flynn 17 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - by Batman 24 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - by Trevor Marriott 30 minutes ago.
Ripper Authors: Can You Name this book/Author? - by Sam Flynn 45 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - by MrBarnett 45 minutes ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - (91 posts)
Lechmere/Cross, Charles: Lech versus Kos - (29 posts)
Mary Jane Kelly: Did Jack leave his fingerprints on Mary Jane Kelly? - (27 posts)
Ripper Authors: Can You Name this book/Author? - (10 posts)
Mary Ann Nichols: What Direction Was Polly Travelling When She Was Killed? - (9 posts)
General Discussion: Jack The Ripper and Venus - (8 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Hutchinson, George

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-28-2009, 07:55 PM
newton1878 newton1878 is offline
Cadet
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10
Default hutchinsons suspect

while i belive joseph Barnett and George Hutchison to be the most likely suspects.George derscribing the man he claimed to have seen would tie in with Dr Tumbletys appearence who was known as a bit of a dandy at the time.what is known of his whereabouts at the time of the murders?As for other suspects would you also look athe nightwatchmen of the common lodging houses?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-01-2009, 02:44 AM
Garry Wroe Garry Wroe is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,572
Default

Hi Newton.

Call me cynical, but most 'suspects' appear to have attained such status purely because they happened to be alive during the Ripper's operational timeframe – and I would include Joe Barnett in that category.

Whoever he was, the Whitechapel Murderer was a sadosexual deviant whose home almost certainly lay within his criminal range. Hence it may be inferred that he was heterosexual and lived locally. This, of course, would tend to exclude Tumblety as well as a number of other Ripper candidates.

As for Mary Kelly's Jewish-looking pick-up, he was, in all probability, a figment of Hutchinson's imagination. Despite the man's highly distinctive appearance, no-one other than Hutchinson appears to have seen him on the night in question. Similarly, Hutchinson was clearly unaware that Kelly was very much 'under the influence' when the two purportedly met on Commercial Street shortly before Kelly's death. This being the case, the meeting itself begins to look extremely doubtful. And if the meeting between Kelly and Hutchinson did not take place, it also seems likely that the exchange between Kelly and her distinguished punter was nothing more than invention on Hutchinson's part.

Good hunting.

Garry Wroe.

Last edited by Garry Wroe : 08-01-2009 at 03:03 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-01-2009, 05:04 AM
Premium Member
The Grave Maurice The Grave Maurice is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 1,674
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by newton1878 View Post
As for other suspects would you also look athe nightwatchmen of the common lodging houses?
Well, yeah, I would. That's just the sort of guy I'd be apt to finger for the crimes . If you can identify any of them, I'll put them at the top of my list. As for the other suspects you name, they are, in my view, non-starters.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-01-2009, 11:45 AM
richardnunweek richardnunweek is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,304
Default

Hi Garry,
How do we know that 'The Jewish man' was a figment of Hutchinsons imagination? is it because Bob Hintons 'From Hell' suggests all kinds of skullduggery.
And as for kelly being highly intoxicated, i have reservations, she did not venture out that night until gone 9am, and returned home before midnight, and by oral history was desperate for money, so its highly unlikely that she lived it up, making it highly likely that she was no more then 'Spreeish'[ as Hutch described].
However we should not forget that Eddowes was also penniless, yet wound up roaring drunk, so we have to consider that the whitechapel murderer may have befriended his potential victims, in order to easily gain their trust on the next encounter.
He could have arranged to meet them the following day , with the suggestion that more good times lay ahead, and bumped into eddowes after she left the cells.
And as for kelly, whats to say that she wasnt supplied with drink on the thursday evening, and the man Maxwell [ claimed] saw was infact waiting to engage kelly when she returned on the street that morning.
Those poor women would never have suspected any danger, they were still alive , and surely would not have been at the hands of 'Jack'.
I have always believed in premediation when it came to these murders.
Regards Richard.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-01-2009, 09:05 PM
Garry Wroe Garry Wroe is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,572
Default

Hi Richard.

First, just to correct what appears to be a common misconception, the 'Hutchinson theory' did not originate with Bob Hinton, nor indeed with the work of Brian Marriner which, I believe, inspired Bob's interest in Hutchinson. Though it is somewhat remiss on my part, I've never read From Hell so am in no way qualified to judge the merits or otherwise of Bob's conclusions. As such, you may rest assured that any opinions I express are based upon years of case-related research combined with what I'd like to think is a dispassionate interpretation of the available evidence.

In this context, although there is no certainty that the Jewish-looking suspect was an invention on Hutchinson's part, a number of evidential factors are indicative that this was indeed the case. For example, it was established beyond doubt that Kelly spent the final afternoon of her life drinking with Maria Harvey, a binge that concluded only when the two women returned to Kelly's room at about 7:30 pm. There, Kelly was visited first by Lizzie Albrook then Joe Barnett, who departed, leaving Kelly alone, at approximately 8:15 pm. Contrary to some of the confused accounts which have entered the case as fact, the next positive sighting occurred at 11:45 pm when Kelly, in the company of Blotchy, encountered Mary Ann Cox, who subsequently stated that Kelly was so drunk she was barely able to utter a simple goodnight.

So, despite the reality that Kelly was very much the worse for wear shortly before midnight, Hutchinson maintained that, barely two hours later, she was no more than "a little spreeish." Since both scenarios cannot possibly be true, I would suggest that Hutchinson's version of events is not only implausible, but utterly at odds with the evidence that emerged from several independent sources. Hence, based upon the available weight of evidence, I would contend that Hutchinson could not have met Kelly on Commercial Street as claimed, otherwise he would have been aware of her degree of drunkenness. And if the meeting with Kelly was an invention, significant doubt is cast upon the alleged scenario involving the Jewish-looking punter doubt that is further reinforced by the seeming reality that no-one other than Hutchinson sighted this most distinctive of individuals.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

Last edited by Garry Wroe : 08-01-2009 at 09:13 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:08 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 10,839
Default

Hello Garry,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Wroe View Post
For example, it was established beyond doubt that Kelly spent the final afternoon of her life drinking with Maria Harvey, a binge that concluded only when the two women returned to Kelly's room at about 7:30 pm.
Where is it recorded that Kelly had spent the final afternoon/early evening of her life on a drunken binge with Maria Harvey?
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:41 AM
perrymason
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Hello Garry,
Where is it recorded that Kelly had spent the final afternoon/early evening of her life on a drunken binge with Maria Harvey?
If it is written anywhere Sam I hope it was designated as fiction. Maria herself said they spent all afternoon in Marys room. That, coupled with recently washed clothing might make some consider domestic chores with Maria her last afternoons entertainment....she is given some coins by Maria as well.

And the laundry belonging to her clients is left in a room that we can assume was left unlocked or on the spring latch by Mary when she did go out, cause her and Blotchy just push it open when they arrive. So it would not be left in her room for "safety's sake", as has been suggested why Maria left the laundry in Marys room that night.....because Mary left the door unlocked.

Im wondering whether the door was left open so that Maria might retrieve her laundry later that night while Mary was out.

Cheers Sam, all.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-02-2009, 01:08 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 10,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by perrymason View Post
Im wondering whether the door was left open so that Maria might retrieve her laundry later that night while Mary was out.
Possibly, Mike, but - alas! - it has little to do with the subject of this thread. (Good suggestion, by the way, but perhaps it's best not to discuss it further here.)
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-02-2009, 03:44 AM
Garry Wroe Garry Wroe is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,572
Default

Hi Sam.

The afternoon of drinking was detailed by Maria Harvey in at least two press interviews. Unfortunately, she doesn't appear to have been questioned about this whilst giving evidence at the inquest hearing, which is all the more frustrating given another newspaper claim that she and Kelly went off to Leman Street together in the early evening in order to earn some money.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-02-2009, 11:15 AM
richardnunweek richardnunweek is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,304
Default

Hi All.
It just goes to show, that we are completely lost when it comes to possible events on the eve/morning of that fateful night.
I would suggest that kelly was not drunk at the time of Barnetts visit, he makes no mention of it, and Praters meeting at the court entrance with Mary, makes no mention.
The latter encounter i strongly believe happened, her account is too realistic to be untrue.
That being the case was Mrs Coxs account of blotchy true?
At 9pm Prater refers to kelly wearing her jacket and bonnet, remarking that she [ prater] did not own such items, yet less then three hours later, Cox has her dressed differently.
Question...[1] Was Prater lying?
[2] Was Cox lying?
[3] Did kelly return to her room to 'dressdown'?
Did Blotchy even exist? after all no evidence was found in her room of any such occurance.
We simply do not know, I would suggest that after Barnett left at 8pm, kelly prepeared herself for a night out, and she left her room around 9pm, engaging Prater at the entrance to Dorset Street, she was then wearing her black jacket and bonnet, and i feel that she returned home alone around midnight, and singing commenced.
I have a strong feeling that kelly was paronoid about spending time alone in that room, and ventured out on the streets again around 2am, hoping to attract a suitable client who would stay the night.
And she did just that, in the shape of Astracan... did he kill her?
I would say most certainly not, kelly meeting her death around 9am on the ninth.
Regards Richard.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.