'oh Murder'

[DVV]

Hopefully I'll never have to find out, but I'd imagine 'Nooo!' or 'Help!' would be my initial reaction. I don't know... I have a hard time imagining that even some wealthy 19th century dowager would cry 'Oh murder!' if she was attacked in her home, let alone a harlot living in the ass-end of London.

Everytime somebody enters my home with a knife, you soon hear him cry "Oh murder !"
And then the voice of my Baikal.

[lynn cates]

castle

Hello Mr B.

"Could it have been aargh, murder?"

No, Aargh is a famous castle housing a very old relic. (heh-heh)

cheers.
LC

[MrBarnett]

Lynn,

How about, 'Ooh, matron!'

MrB

[lynn cates]

Hello MrB. Thanks.

Or perhaps, "Go away or I taunt you a second time-uh"? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[GUT]

And of course the French "Medre" was common.

[MrBarnett]

Hello MrB. Thanks.

Or perhaps, "Go away or I taunt you a second time-uh"? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

I couldn't have put it better myself!

Cheers,

MrB .

[DRoy]

Just out of curiosity, if there was a cry of 'oh murder' on the night of MJK's death, why did no one take it more seriously?

Natasha,

I don't believe I've welcomed you to the boards yet. Welcome!

Perhaps some would have taken more notice if it was screamed three times but not very loudly?

Seriously though, it would be impossible to prove it had been cried out unless the person that said it came forward (other than MJK) ...no matter how much it may have been believed. As Dave has mentioned, it seems it was used as more slang as opposed to the literal sense.

Cheers
DRoy

[Dave O]

Here's a contemporary example from Macdonald's records at the LMA of someone crying out "Murder" when faced with violence. On 17 October 1888 in Tottenham, Henry Elliott shot his brother-in-law Thomas Norris (or Morris) before turning on the gun upon himself and committing suicide. At the time of the inquest, Norris was still alive in the hospital having taken a serious wound to his temple.

From the inquest record at the LMA, John Norris, turf-dealer and nephew to both men:

"On 17th inst. I was at work with my uncle Thomas Norris in Mount Pleasant Field, turf cutting, it was a thick fog. I heard Norris cry out Murder three times. I then heard 2 reports of firearms in succession."

An aside--the Daily News reported on the 18th: "It is believed, too, that deceased had carried the revolver about with him for some time, and that he availed himself of the fog which prevailed yesterday morning to carry out his intention to commit murder and suicide. The shocking affair created a great sensation in the neighbourhood, and all kinds of rumours connecting it with the Whitechapel horrors were circulated."

Best,
Dave

[Cogidubnus]

Hi David

No, Natasha, I'm merely saying that "Oh murder !" was a common cry at the time and didn't necessarily mean somebody was being murdered

Hoo bloody ray...at least there's two of us listening...

All the best

Dave

[Ginger]

Everytime somebody enters my home with a knife, you soon hear him cry "Oh murder !"
And then the voice of my Baikal.

This is why no-one ever gifts you a cutlery set for Christmas.

[Ginger]

And of course the French "Medre" was common.

'Merde', you surely mean. That's an appealing idea, in view of Kelly's background. I really can't make anything of it, but it's at least interesting that McCarthy was strongly connected with the music-hall scene per Tom Wescott. 'Merde' is the good-luck expression used by French performers before taking the stage, much as we say 'break a leg'. I don't really believe that's what happened, but I can easily imagine Kelly ironically saying 'merde' just before getting down to business.

[GUT]

G'day Ginger

'Merde', you surely mean. That's an appealing idea, in view of Kelly's background. I really can't make anything of it, but it's at least interesting that McCarthy was strongly connected with the music-hall scene per Tom Wescott. 'Merde' is the good-luck expression used by French performers before taking the stage, much as we say 'break a leg'. I don't really believe that's what happened, but I can easily imagine Kelly ironically saying 'merde' just before getting down to business.

So I can't type.

[GUT]

It was the French connection to to the story she is alleged to have told that caught my eye.

[Natasha]

Natasha,

I don't believe I've welcomed you to the boards yet. Welcome!

Perhaps some would have taken more notice if it was screamed three times but not very loudly?

Seriously though, it would be impossible to prove it had been cried out unless the person that said it came forward (other than MJK) ...no matter how much it may have been believed. As Dave has mentioned, it seems it was used as more slang as opposed to the literal sense.

Cheers
DRoy

Hi DRoy

Thank You

I take your point, that does make sense

[Natasha]

Hi David



Hoo bloody ray...at least there's two of us listening...

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave

I will take what I presume is insinuated sarcasm on the chin

Can get carried away with the JTR subject!