Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
A6 Murders: A6 Rebooted - by Alfie 4 minutes ago.
A6 Murders: A6 Rebooted - by Sherlock Houses 20 minutes ago.
Torso Killings: torso maps - by RockySullivan 25 minutes ago.
Research Related: Henry Kelly - by Paddy 1 hour and 10 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by Busy Beaver 1 hour and 18 minutes ago.
Torso Killings: torso maps - by Sam Flynn 2 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - (32 posts)
Torso Killings: torso maps - (23 posts)
Mary Jane Kelly: If Mrs. Maxwell Didn't See Mary Who Did She See? - (15 posts)
Research Related: Henry Kelly - (5 posts)
Non-Fiction: Walter Dew's account...... - (3 posts)
A6 Murders: A6 Rebooted - (2 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Ostrog, Michael

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-12-2011, 09:41 PM
Rob Clack Rob Clack is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Croydon
Posts: 1,708
Default Ostrog's 1888 arrest

Courtesy of Maria, here's a translation of Ostrog's 1888 arrest of a microscope in France.

14 Nov. 1888 [the date is inscribed much earlier, with the first case gone before the magistrates that day].
For the prosecutor, representing the French Republic.
Lublinski Stanislas, alias Grand Guidon, 53 years of age, claiming to be a doctor of medicine, was born on 5 March 1835 in Warsaw (Poland) by... and ... [this obviously refers to the names of the parents, but has been left blank]. No indication of home address.
Theft, infringement of an order of expulsion.
(forensic pathology)
After deliberations following French law, the tribunal/the court, after some confusion and delays, established that in 1888 in Paris the defendant Lublinski fraudulently took away a microscope property of Mr. Legry, which constitutes an actual offense punished by articles [unreadable: 279? 379?] of the penal code. Given that it's also established that Lublinski, alien, was ex-pulsed from France by a ministerial order on June 9, 1886 which was lawfully communicated to the defendant, but he re-entered France and was arrested in Paris on July 21, 1888, according to article 8 of the law issued on December 3, 1849. Since the persecutor has already condemned the defendant to a sentence longer than one year of imprisonment, and that the defendant calls himself a forensic pathologist, according to article 8 of the penal code, in an application of articles 401, 8, and [18? 58?] which were read by the president, in addition to the other cases of theft and other attempted offences not being considered in the present session, it's been decided that the offence be punished by imprisonment of at least one year and at most two years, and by a penal fee assessed between at least sixteen francs and at most five hundred francs.
Any alien ignoring extraction and acting against the aforementioned article and article 272 of the penal code by exiting France and returning without the government's permission will be judged by us in this court and will be sentenced to imprisonment from one to six months. After serving his sentence, he will be brought to the border. Defendants having been sentenced to longer that one year of imprisonment due to additional offences will be condemned according to law for their first offence, which can lead to a double sentence added to their first offence and to a surveillance by the government for a duration between one year at least and ten years at most, according to article 361 of the code for criminal instruction, which states that in case of multiple offences, a punishment will be applied solely for the most serious offence. See also article from the same code, in case an attenuated punishment was applied, according to circumstances.
Lublinski is convicted to 2 years of imprisonment and to the penal fee of 448 francs and 85 cents, plus 3 francs for shipping costs. Minimal duration of the corporal sentence will fit the recruitment of the costs.
[4 signatures, difficult to read]
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-12-2011, 09:48 PM
Rob Clack Rob Clack is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Croydon
Posts: 1,708
Default

And some images courtesy of Maria.

Name:  cbOstrog1.jpg
Views: 602
Size:  120.7 KB

Name:  cbOstrog2.jpg
Views: 658
Size:  205.4 KB

Name:  cbOstrog3.jpg
Views: 683
Size:  40.3 KB

Name:  cbOstrog4.jpg
Views: 654
Size:  56.7 KB
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-12-2011, 09:50 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 13,841
Default well done

Hello Rob, Maria. Nice work. Any notation/s about violence?

Cheers.
LC
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-12-2011, 11:14 PM
mariab mariab is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2,977
Default

Thank you so very much for kindly cleaning up the images and for posting this, Rob.

Lynn, NO hints of violence whatsoever. I still suspect that Ostrog was a mixup with Le Grand. Notice Ostrog's con name Grand Guidon in the Paris convinction document, as well as Dr. Grant in other instances. I'm trying to locate a letter Macnagthen wrote in May 1891 to the medical facility Ostrog was incarcerated. I'm interested in the exact contents of that letter (not revealed by Sugden).
__________________
Best regards,
Maria
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-13-2011, 01:39 AM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 13,841
Default adjective

Hello Maria. Could "Grand" in this context function as an adjective?

Cheers.
LC
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-13-2011, 10:23 AM
mariab mariab is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2,977
Default

Absolutely, Lynn. It's just an adjective. My point is how a British police officer might have reacted to this.
__________________
Best regards,
Maria
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-13-2011, 10:32 AM
Debra A Debra A is offline
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Yorkshire England
Posts: 3,101
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Hello Rob, Maria. Nice work. Any notation/s about violence?

Cheers.
LC
Good work Maria.
Could him describing himself as a 'forensic pathologist' have triggered suspicions about him being the Ripper I wonder?
__________________
,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

I am not DJA. He's called Dave.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-13-2011, 10:58 AM
mariab mariab is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2,977
Default

Hello Debs.
Yes, there's evidence that the British police were looking for a doctor for the Ripper murders. The problem is that Ostrog was arrested in Paris in July 1888 and was under lock and key during the entire “autumn of terror“.
What I'm interested in finding is the letter Macnaghten wrote in May 1891 to the superintendent at Banstead Hospital, where Ostrog was incarcerated. (This letter is partly quoted by Sugden on p. XVIII of his book.) Sugden says the records from Banstead Hospital are held by GLRO, which I'm not sure what it is, neither have I ever conducted research in hospital records. I was thinking of PMing Robert Linford about this, but I'm sure you can help too.
__________________
Best regards,
Maria

Last edited by mariab : 06-13-2011 at 11:01 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-13-2011, 12:22 PM
Jonathan H Jonathan H is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 2,329
Default

Though it is not the letter you are seeking, here is an excerpt from the footnotes section of Paul Begg's excellent 'Jack the Ripper --The Facts' (2006) p.487:

In 1891 Melville Macnaghten wrote to Banstead requesting that the Convict Supervision Office be informed if Ostrog was released. There is no suggestion that Banstead were informed that Ostrog was potentially dangerous, possibly a multiple murderer and perhaps Jacks the Ripper.

I'll bet they weren't.

Plus Ostrog becomes habitually cruel to women, is definitely insane, and carries surgical knives, in the version of the Mac Report seen by the police chief's literary pals -- but what is the Russian thief doing there at all when he had an iron clad alibi?

In his own 1914 memoirs, Macnaghten does not even bother to mention [the un-named] Ostrog in order to debunk him as a 'suspect'. Thus this primary source does arguably concur with secondary sources: Ostrog as 'Jack' is a complete non-starter.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-13-2011, 12:37 PM
Phil H Phil H is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 2,362
Default

As someone with (hitherto at least) only the most passing of interest in Ostrog or Le Grand, can I just ensure that I have the implications of these discoveries right in my head?

A) The discovery shows that Ostrog was non-violent and thus unlikely to have been even a starter as a suspect for JtR?

B) The reference to Grand Guidon/Dr Grant may have led to confusion -a mix-up between Ostrog and Le Grand in someone's (Macnaghten's?) mind?

C) That the reference in the Macnaghten memoranda is a mistake?

D) Thus we can consign Ostrog to that limbo reserved for discredited suspects, and wonder whether Macnaghten was really interested in Le Grand?

Finally, is the confusion considered to be deliberate (i.e. covering something up, or accidental, on Macnaghten's part?

Sorry if this is old-hat to those of your deeply involved in the research, but I'd like to be sure i have the implications right.

Thanks,

Phil

Last edited by Phil H : 06-13-2011 at 12:39 PM. Reason: for spelling and clarification.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.