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  #41  
Old 06-17-2018, 08:19 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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[quote=Darryl Kenyon;450522]
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Originally Posted by packers stem View Post

Did i say Lawende had a good view of JTR? What I said was his evidence can be corroborated. As for going to the shop to buy some milk, I went to the paper shop around the corner this morning and saw Elvis across the road. Faz who served and knows me can corroborate I went to the shop but can he corroborate that I saw Elvis? OED Corroborate - confirm or give support to (a statement, theory, or finding).
Wasn't the suggested corroboration by the milk shop given in response to the suggestion Maxwell had the wrong day?
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  #42  
Old 06-17-2018, 08:33 AM
rjpalmer rjpalmer is offline
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Wickerman, you're probably right, but isn't it also true that the abject poor eat whatever is available, and don't conform to the niceties of a breakfast, lunch, and dinner menu? Cold pizza is the breakfast of champions in most trailer courts in the U.S. of A. And, anyway, didn't your lot eat kippers in the a.m. back in the day?
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  #43  
Old 06-17-2018, 08:34 AM
Darryl Kenyon Darryl Kenyon is offline
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A couple of observations. When Mrs Maxwell first saw Mary she was stood at the corner of Millers Court and had thrown up in the street nearby. She would have been right next to Mcarthy's shop and fifteen minutes later hadn't moved too far and was stood near the Ringers. A couple of hours later Mcarthy sends Bowyer out to collect the rent. Could he have missed Mary throwing up in the street, talking outside his shop or hanging about nearby? It's a possibility but if he did see her surely he would have just gone out, or sent someone out and asked her for the arrears. Also, neither McCarty or Bowyer said they saw Mary at that time in the morning. Was the shop open? Well, you have to say probably. Secondly, Mary would know about the arrears and would know it's collection day. Would she really go to The Ringers and spend what might have been her last money on some ale in that state? I doubt she could attract a client first thing in the morning looking possibly like death warmed up, and would she want to?
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  #44  
Old 06-17-2018, 10:19 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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[quote=Darryl Kenyon;450522]
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Originally Posted by packers stem View Post

Did i say Lawende had a good view of JTR? What I said was his evidence can be corroborated. As for going to the shop to buy some milk, I went to the paper shop around the corner this morning and saw Elvis across the road. Faz who served and knows me can corroborate I went to the shop but can he corroborate that I saw Elvis? OED Corroborate - confirm or give support to (a statement, theory, or finding).
If Elvis was proven to be your neighbour then I suggest you would be highly likely to be telling the truth....

Maurice Lewis ....

Lawende's companions confirm 'a couple' standing in Duke Street .
So is that it in your view witness wise ?
Other than Best and Gardner who corroborated each other ?
You can't include Mortimer really, just saw a man with a shiny bag .Goldstein saw a report and came forward ..... maybe someone else owned a bag ?
So Best and Gardner are the only witnesses with corroboration if that's your route ....
Personally , I'm not inclined to disbelieve someone purely because they didn't have company at the time
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  #45  
Old 06-17-2018, 10:25 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
A couple of observations. When Mrs Maxwell first saw Mary she was stood at the corner of Millers Court and had thrown up in the street nearby. She would have been right next to Mcarthy's shop and fifteen minutes later hadn't moved too far and was stood near the Ringers. A couple of hours later Mcarthy sends Bowyer out to collect the rent. Could he have missed Mary throwing up in the street, talking outside his shop or hanging about nearby? It's a possibility but if he did see her surely he would have just gone out, or sent someone out and asked her for the arrears. Also, neither McCarty or Bowyer said they saw Mary at that time in the morning. Was the shop open? Well, you have to say probably. Secondly, Mary would know about the arrears and would know it's collection day. Would she really go to The Ringers and spend what might have been her last money on some ale in that state? I doubt she could attract a client first thing in the morning looking possibly like death warmed up, and would she want to?
Someone 'not seeing' a person is not evidence that they weren't there .
Did McCarthy or Bowyer witness her comings and goings on Thursday night ?
That goes for her spending money the night before knowing there was rent to pay .
Anything stated there could just as easily apply to the day before .... the shop was open till 3am usually ...... there was a lot that McCarthy didn't spot it seems .
I've never suggested she would be looking for a 'client'
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  #46  
Old 06-17-2018, 10:29 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjpalmer View Post
Wickerman, you're probably right, but isn't it also true that the abject poor eat whatever is available, and don't conform to the niceties of a breakfast, lunch, and dinner menu? Cold pizza is the breakfast of champions in most trailer courts in the U.S. of A. And, anyway, didn't your lot eat kippers in the a.m. back in the day?
You have to place yourself then and not now .
These were starving people , eating one meal a day on a good day .... they got food , they ate it.
You can't compare to what we might do today
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  #47  
Old 06-17-2018, 10:32 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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People like Kelly pretty well lived from hand to mouth. So I wouldn't think it viable to suggest she bought the food earlier the night before, and kept half of it for breakfast. But then, who eats a meal soon after throwing up?
Typically, food is the last thing on your mind after a good heave-up - I recall my pub-crawl days when a lad.
I agree .... so where does that leave us now ?
And fish and chips would be vile cold ... 😀
I repeat .
Bonds report says fish and potatoes .
Kelly was alive and well
Now we agree that the food would not be a breakfast .
So ?
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  #48  
Old 06-17-2018, 02:56 PM
DJA DJA is offline
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...... Maxwell had her days mixed up.
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  #49  
Old 06-17-2018, 03:17 PM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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...... Maxwell had her days mixed up.
Eeeerm ...... not in this version of reality she didn't 😀
We can either look for the truth , wherever it leads us or we can pick a suspect out of a hat and then hand pick our chosen facts to suit ..... as has been happening for most of the last 130 years .
Maxwell is the fly in the ointment , she's immovable and if we want to get anywhere we should be trying to get our heads around what the options are ...
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  #50  
Old 06-17-2018, 03:24 PM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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In fact to go further ....
Maxwell is the ONLY witness where the day was proven to be correct by enquiries at the milk shop , so she is the sole witness we can't throw that at 😁
Hutchinson , Sarah Lewis ,Cox ..... Schwartz and the rest from Berner Street , Long and Cadosche, they could ALL have got the wrong day ...... Maxwell couldn't 😉
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