Ep. #44 The Chapman-Ripper Theory: w/ R Michael Gordon

[Natalie Severn]

I have been really put out lately as I still havent been able to listen to the podcast -to date- as my computer has been playing up-being in North Wales and not London at the moment is not helping either!The computer times out as it downloads after ten minutes or so at the moment.

Point of Information:
The deposition of Ethel Radin of 14 January1903, at Southwark Police Court:
In this Ethel Radin states under oath at Chapman"s trial for murder that he stayed with her at 70 West India Dock Road for "about five months".
Mrs Radin must have been living at West India Dock Road before December 2nd 1887.This is because the Post Office Directory did not accept anyone for their 1888 Directory of addresses who had not been living at that address before December 2nd 1887. We know she was no longer living at that address in 1889 so Severin Klosowski must have stayed with her for a period of five months sometime between December 1887 and December 2nd 1888 LEAVING BEFORE THE POST OFFICE DIRECTORY DEADLINE of December 2nd 1888 AT THE VERY LATEST in order for his name alongside his new address at 126 Cable Street to have been included in the Post Office Directory of 1889.
The Post Office Directory of 1889 gives his address as 126 Cable Street and traditionally, he is believed to have arrived in the UK sometime in 1887 .

[Sam Flynn]

Welcome back, Nats - hope your computer trouble sorts itself out soon!

LEAVING BEFORE THE POST OFFICE DIRECTORY DEADLINE of December 2nd 1888 AT THE VERY LATEST in order for his name alongside his new address at 126 Cable Street to have been included in the Post Office Directory of 1889.

In point of fact, the Post Office Directory was still accepting and amending entries as late as December 13th 1888.

traditionally, he is believed to have arrived in the UK sometime in 1887 .

As I pointed out above, Nats, the best information at the disposal of the Solicitor General at his trial was that Kłosowski had arrived in England "sometime in 1888".

[Natalie Severn]

Thankyou Sam.I have been fed up with it,I really have .
Anyway,yes,you are right,I think Chapman probably did arrive sometime in 1888 and stayed in West India Dock Road, as Mrs Radin testified, for five months in that year. But I doubt somehow he was moving digs on this shifting deadline of yours of December 13th 1888 just before Christmas----I understood the deadline to be December 2nd anyway.
Cheers
Nats
x

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Nats,

Whether it was 2nd December or the 13th (you may recall that I found an ad. in the Times that said the PO was still editing the Directory on 13/12/1888), that still allows room for doubt. He could well have been rooted in WI Dock Road until September, October or November 1888, for all we know. He might even have lived there afterwards, using 126 Cable Street as a business address - not inconsistent with his living in Greenfield Street when he worked in the barber shop under the White Hart.

[Natalie Severn]

He may well have been living in West India Dock Road in September,October and November 1888,Sam but the likelihood is he was there in Cable Street by then after his five month stint with the Radins.But even just snooping around the Pinchin Street/Cable Street railway arches area and spotting the enormous potential for another type of project in 1889-boy was he pleased to eventually be able to have himself that address . His very own barber shop at 126 Cable Street ,with sink,scissors knives ,wigs hairdyes and all the other accoutrements of the Victorian Barber shop !

[Sam Flynn]

We don't know that it was his "very own barber-shop" either, Nats. He might have been "managing" it on behalf of somebody else. We know that he wasn't the owner of the shop under the White Hart, nor of Mr Haddin/Radin's at Tottenham (coincidentally, not far from White Hart Lane). Both of these "managerships/assistantships" came after his association with the Cable Street shop.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Sam,
Am I right,though, in saying he must have been the tenant/ keyholder for number 126 Cable Street?After all it is down as "his" address for the year 1889 [ meaning he must have been there at least by December 1888 in order to have been in time for that 1889 entry into the 1889 P. O. Directory etc]. Had there been another "co-manager" surely that too would have been entered in the directory? I wasnt suggesting btw, he had done anything other than "rented" these premises.But I think it very likely it was he who had the keys-crucial to any prospect of continued hanky panky,either by way of trying out them wigs ,hair dyes and other disguises........ or indeed carrying out an even more secret or sinister "sideline".

[Sam Flynn]

Had there been another "co-manager" surely that too would have been entered in the directory?

I'm not sure, Nats, especially if Mr Haddin/Radin had more than one shop - it might even have been a tax dodge to have someone else put his name down on his behalf!

I just wish I had a copy of that Directory, that's all!

[Malcolm X]

Hi Sam,
Am I right,though, in saying he must have been the tenant/ keyholder for number 126 Cable Street?After all it is down as "his" address for the year 1889 [ meaning he must have been there at least by December 1888 in order to have been in time for that 1889 entry into the 1889 P. O. Directory etc]. Had there been another "co-manager" surely that too would have been entered in the directory? I wasnt suggesting btw, he had done anything other than "rented" these premises.But I think it very likely it was he who had the keys-crucial to any prospect of continued hanky panky,either by way of trying out them wigs ,hair dyes and other disguises........ or indeed carrying out an even more secret or sinister "sideline".

welcome back Natalie ... it doesn't matter if he owned the shops, so much as he was living in the area at that time... i'd be surprised if they were his shops anyway, he would've been too young at that time to have that much money.

[Natalie Severn]

welcome back Natalie ... it doesn't matter if he owned the shops, so much as he was living in the area at that time... i'd be surprised if they were his shops anyway, he would've been too young at that time to have that much money.

Thanks Malcolm,
We know he was living at 70 West India Dock Road for some five months of 1888 -the period when the Radins lived there and had him as their lodger and assistant.West India Dock Road was well accessible to anyone living in Whitechapel,it being within easy reach by tram or by foot via Cable Street or Whitechapel High Street.
However,how I see it is that he is recorded in the Post Office Directory as being at 126 Cable Street,where there was a barber shop,which he is understood to have been in charge of ie by those who have researched him to date.He must have been doing something to do with this address in December 1888,if not much earlier in 1888,due to the necessity of his entry into the Post Office Directory by December 1888.Presumably he had previously "checked out" the area of Cable Street? Its a spooky place even today with one side of it,the opposite side to his shop, comprised solely of looming Victorian railway arches-Pinchin Street abutts Cable Street, where the "headless torso" was found in September 1889.Chapman"s address at this time,is given in the Post Office Directory,as 126 Cable Street.Some writers have put this "murder" victim of Pinchin Street down as an "abortion gone wrong".Barber surgeon"s were known to occasionally have run a "sideline" as abortionists.An "unattached" barber surgeon such as Chapman with his own premises - almost certainly including a basement-could have got up to all sorts once the shop was shut.We need to find out all we can about this particular address.Its still there I think.

[Natalie Severn]

I'm not sure, Nats, especially if Mr Haddin/Radin had more than one shop - it might even have been a tax dodge to have someone else put his name down on his behalf!

I just wish I had a copy of that Directory, that's all!

So do I Sam,so do I!

[thewastelandr]

technical problems

Is it just me, or is iTunes not letting us download this episode?

[GordonH]

Is it just me, or is iTunes not letting us download this episode?

It worked for me at the time via my podcast subscription for rippercast.
You can manually download the file from the page and add it to your itunes library if you get stuck.

[Natalie Severn]

I have had the same problem-but my computer has been playing up anyway lately.I thought I had sorted it out but its just refused to down load some photos sent to me today .So I"ll try again tomorrow -----via itunes!
Thanks for the tip.
Norma

[thewastelandr]

Which page should I try downloading it from?