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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #581  
Old 10-14-2017, 08:05 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Ahhh Steve and Fish debating in long posts. Now.....where have I seen that before
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  #582  
Old 10-14-2017, 08:12 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Ahhh Steve and Fish debating in long posts. Now.....where have I seen that before
No more I promise; unless Christer says something I think needs Response.
Too busy writingup. Start on Mizen scam next week I hope, blood evidence to follow soon after.


Steve
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  #583  
Old 10-14-2017, 08:29 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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If TK wanted the maximum effect from these body parts then we have to question the use of a river. This introduces an element of chance. If we knew of everything that's ever been dumped in the Thames what would be the percentage of them that were recovered?

This whole subject, while definately interesting, is a difficult one to debate because we know far less.

The TK did all he could to obliterate his victims identities whilst Jack did no such thing.

Jack wanted everyone to know 'what' these women were. TK didn't care.

Jack left them where he killed them. TK went to elaborate lengths to disperse them.

Different man for me.
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  #584  
Old 10-14-2017, 08:30 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
No more I promise; unless Christer says something I think needs Response.
Too busy writingup. Start on Mizen scam next week I hope, blood evidence to follow soon after.


Steve
I'm not complaining Steve.

Don't work too hard and neglect the pub
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  #585  
Old 10-14-2017, 11:18 AM
Sox Sox is offline
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I totally agree, Sox. However, in defence of the FBI, I believe their definition of 'posing' includes any post-mortem movement of the body, for whatever purpose. They should have used another term, though.
Quite Josh, I'm a supporter of a lot of FBI methods myself.
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protohistorian-Where would we be without Stewart Evans or Paul Begg,Kieth Skinner, Martin Fido,or Donald Rumbelow?

Sox-Knee deep in Princes & Painters with Fenian ties who did not mutilate the women at the scene, but waited with baited breath outside the mortuary to carry out their evil plots before rushing home for tea with the wife...who would later poison them of course
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  #586  
Old 10-14-2017, 12:29 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
I totally agree, Sox. However, in defence of the FBI, I believe their definition of 'posing' includes any post-mortem movement of the body, for whatever purpose. They should have used another term, though.

Agreed - "exhibiting" or something like that would be much more useful. If we only use the strict meaning of the word posing, we will miss a number of interesting matters.
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  #587  
Old 10-14-2017, 12:34 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Or under-qualified FBI men who think that human behaviour follows some kind of recipe or immutable law.
Very well put.
You cynic, you. I bet you would have found that hard to tell Robert Ressler to his face, though...

Once we do not overinvest in the precarious art of profiling, it has a lot to offer. The problem with profiling is that we cannot judge how qualitative it is in a certain case if the perpetrator is not caught, and therefore it is impossible to know what value - if any - it has in searching for the Ripper/Torso man.

On the whole, though, if it didn´t have it´s advantages, I don´t think it would be allowed to grow the way it has. It advances knowledge on a general level, and that´s not half bad.

As for "our cases", it would be as foolish not to listen to what profilers have to say as it would be to make the assumption they will/must be right.
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  #588  
Old 10-14-2017, 12:35 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
You cynis, you. I bet you would have found that hard to tell Robert Ressler to his face, though
Ressler I respect, but there are too many amateur (and professional) dabblers out there.
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  #589  
Old 10-14-2017, 12:45 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
1. Yes
2. No
3.....Maybe?
The third option?

Glad you - almost - asked, because this is where things become a bit more interesting!

The third option is that the killer did pose the victims -but NOT to evoke any reaction or feelings from those who found them, or from the surrounding society. There is a chance he posed them only for himself.

Dahmer did this, for example. And the reason we know this is that he photographed them, in positions that were quite explicit and that bore a sexual significance to him. After photographing them, he took them out of the positions and stored them. Or ate them. Or dismembered them and got rid of them.

And Dahmer had the probable common trait with the Ripper and the Torso man, that the kill was not what was important. He could actually be described as a rather meek guy, almost soft and timid. But he killed. And posed - for his own benefit.

There is a possibility that the Ripper also did this. That the explicit postures of the victims was just for his own benefit.
Similarly, the torso man could have done just the same - killed, posed, dismembered and discarded.

The scope is sometimes wider than it seems at first glance.
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  #590  
Old 10-14-2017, 12:46 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
In the case of most of the torso body-parts, they'd end up wherever the river took them. No way could that be construed as "posing".
No. But that does not equate that the killer could not have nourished a wish to show off what he had done. It´s the term "posing" that is too narrow to cover this possibility, just like Joshua has pointed out.
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