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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Letters and Communications > Goulston Street Graffito

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  #571  
Old 08-09-2017, 07:18 AM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
Hello Observer,

As for the above;

1. If you wish to assume that all contradictory times can be explained by assuming that at least 50% of the witnesses were simply incorrect with their estimates, that's your call.

2. At the Inquest Spooner said: "We had left a public- house in Commercial-road at closing time, midnight, and walked quietly to the point named." That puts him, with a slow gait, at the Beehive around 12:15-12:20. Add 20-25 minutes. Plus re-read what you posted..."I believe it was twenty-five minutes to one o'clock when I arrived in the yard."

3. We know Liz Stride was alive at 12:35 when PC Smith saw her. He is the last witness to see her out and about, since its clear by the witnesses that at least 2 witnesses had views of the street, off and on for one, from 12:40ish until 1am. They didn't see or hear Israels Alledged Altercation. That leaves the immediate street "desolate" after 12:35.
Estimates is the key word here I think. All the examples quoted are of times ending in either '0' or '5'. That's consistent with witnesses rounding their time estimates to the nearest minute divisible by five.
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  #572  
Old 08-09-2017, 07:21 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Estimates is the key word here I think. All the examples quoted are of times ending in either '0' or '5'. That's consistent with witnesses rounding their time estimates to the nearest minute divisible by five.
Pc Watkins stated it was 1.44am when he found Catherone Eddowes

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  #573  
Old 08-09-2017, 08:38 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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if that's the case what happened to stride? did she vanish in thin air too?
No, she was in the passageway that she was killed in. Once she stepped in there she would be unseen by anyone at their door on Berner Street. She would not have been invisible to anyone else in the passageway...and by the statements if Lave was accurate, she would have had to pass by him....If Eagle was accurate, she would have had to be there when he entered the yard, and if Issac Kozebrodksi, Heschberg and other member Gillen was accurate, she was lying in the passageway bleeding out.

Heres some logic for you, although logic doesn't go over so good here ...but Liz Stride is in her "good evening wear" that she sought to remove lint from when she left the lodginghouse, she has a recently purchased flower arrangement on her jacket, and breath fresheners in her hand. She has also been working steadily in the weeks leading up to the murder "among the Jews".

Now she is in the passageway owned by local Jews,... who were considered anarchists by the police as a side point....within 1 hour of the clubs meeting ending that night. Some 200 people attended. Think the club might need cleaning? Or, do you think its possible that while working "among the Jews" that she found one that she wanted to date...someone who would have been at the club that night? Presumably Eagle would have been paid for his speaking engagement when he left the club to escort his date home, so why did he return? And why didnt he see Liz or anyone else......its the medical statements that seem to indicate she was cut either within an hour of 1:30am as per Phillips, or sometime 20 or 30 minutes by Blackwell, prior to his arrival at 1:16. That in and of itself indicates its most probable that when she was off the street in that alleyway after she was last seen.

She was clearly not killed by a serial Ripper, that's for certain, so someone killed her for some other reason than mere madness.
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Last edited by Michael W Richards : 08-09-2017 at 08:50 AM.
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  #574  
Old 08-09-2017, 08:52 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
No, she was in the passageway that she was killed in. Once she stepped in there she would be unseen by anyone at their door on Berner Street. She would not have been invisible to anyone else in the passageway...and by the statements if Lave was accurate, she would have had to pass by him....If Eagle was accurate, she would have had to be there when he entered the yard, and if Issac Kozebrodksi, Heschberg and other member Gillen was accurate, she was lying in the passageway bleeding out.

Heres some logic for you, although logic doesn't go over so good here ...but Liz Stride is in her "good evening wear" that she sought to remove lint from when she left the lodginghouse, she has a recently purchased flower arrangement on her jacket, and breath fresheners in her hand. She has also been working steadily in the weeks leading up to the murder "among the Jews".

Now she is in the passageway owned by local Jews,... who were considered anarchists by the police as a side point....within 1 hour of the clubs meeting ending that night. Some 200 people attended. Think the club might need cleaning? Or, do you think its possible that while working "among the Jews" that she found one that she wanted to date...someone who would have been at the club that night?

She was clearly not killed by a serial Ripper, that's for certain, so someone killed her for some other reason than mere madness.
Hi Michael
Thanks for clarifying.

I think she was all gussyed up because after having broken up with her boyfriend she was out to have some fun... maybe find a new boyfriend/sugar daddy.

I think she thought she might have found him in peaked cap man-the man that marshall, PC smith and Schwartz saw. and Lawende for that matter. Unfortunately for her it was the ripper.

but since she was NOT actively prostituting she was hesitant to accompany peaked cap man to secluded spot for said purposes. Who then got pissed since after spending considerable time (and money?) on her lost his temper and cut her throat in a fit of frustrated anger.
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #575  
Old 08-09-2017, 09:01 AM
John G John G is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
No, she was in the passageway that she was killed in. Once she stepped in there she would be unseen by anyone at their door on Berner Street. She would not have been invisible to anyone else in the passageway...and by the statements if Lave was accurate, she would have had to pass by him....If Eagle was accurate, she would have had to be there when he entered the yard, and if Issac Kozebrodksi, Heschberg and other member Gillen was accurate, she was lying in the passageway bleeding out.

Heres some logic for you, although logic doesn't go over so good here ...but Liz Stride is in her "good evening wear" that she sought to remove lint from when she left the lodginghouse, she has a recently purchased flower arrangement on her jacket, and breath fresheners in her hand. She has also been working steadily in the weeks leading up to the murder "among the Jews".

Now she is in the passageway owned by local Jews,... who were considered anarchists by the police as a side point....within 1 hour of the clubs meeting ending that night. Some 200 people attended. Think the club might need cleaning? Or, do you think its possible that while working "among the Jews" that she found one that she wanted to date...someone who would have been at the club that night? Presumably Eagle would have been paid for his speaking engagement when he left the club to escort his date home, so why did he return? And why didnt he see Liz or anyone else......its the medical statements that seem to indicate she was cut either within an hour of 1:30am as per Phillips, or sometime 20 or 30 minutes by Blackwell, prior to his arrival at 1:16. That in and of itself indicates its most probable that when she was off the street in that alleyway after she was last seen.

She was clearly not killed by a serial Ripper, that's for certain, so someone killed her for some other reason than mere madness.
Stride' s killer was never found. We therefore cannot be at all certain that she wasn't killed by "JtR."
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