Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
General Discussion: The Weapon - by Damaso Marte 16 minutes ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Kansas Physician Confirms Howard Report - by TradeName 1 hours ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Kansas Physician Confirms Howard Report - by TradeName 2 hours ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Kansas Physician Confirms Howard Report - by TradeName 2 hours ago.
General Discussion: The Weapon - by Herlock Sholmes 5 hours ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by Varqm 7 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - (11 posts)
General Discussion: The Weapon - (3 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: Kansas Physician Confirms Howard Report - (3 posts)
Ripper Notes: Status of Ripper Notes? - (2 posts)
Elizabeth Stride: For what reason do we include Stride? - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Maybrick, James

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-13-2016, 08:41 AM
YomRippur YomRippur is offline
Constable
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 90
Default Mary Kelly's time of death --> Maybrick unlikely to be JTR?

Hi, I'm reading the Mammoth Book of Jack the Ripper, and William Beadle's article "The Real Jack the Ripper" has this to say: "Nevertheless, like Cohen, Francis Tumblety is a credible suspect. I am afraid James Maybrick is not. There are simply too many problems, not the least of which is that modern-day pathology reliably puts Mary Kelly’s death at much later in the morning, which means that the diarist cannot have been the Ripper." My question is: how does Mary Kelly's time of death have any bearing on whether Maybrick was the killer or not? I know not all of Beadle's theories are sound, but what was Beadle basing on when he made that statement? Thanks in advance. This is my first post here!
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-13-2016, 02:29 PM
GUT GUT is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: I come from a land Down Under
Posts: 7,354
Default

Welcome to casebook.

I think there is a lot more wrong about Maybrick than MJK's t.o.d.
__________________
G U T

There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-14-2016, 01:21 AM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,783
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YomRippur View Post
Hi, I'm reading the Mammoth Book of Jack the Ripper, and William Beadle's article "The Real Jack the Ripper" has this to say: "Nevertheless, like Cohen, Francis Tumblety is a credible suspect. I am afraid James Maybrick is not. There are simply too many problems, not the least of which is that modern-day pathology reliably puts Mary Kelly’s death at much later in the morning, which means that the diarist cannot have been the Ripper." My question is: how does Mary Kelly's time of death have any bearing on whether Maybrick was the killer or not? I know not all of Beadle's theories are sound, but what was Beadle basing on when he made that statement? Thanks in advance. This is my first post here!
Hi YoumRippur

I assume that there is reference to the time of death in the diary. However I don't know for sure as I have not read the diary. Largely because as Beadle says Maybrick is not a creditable Ripper suspect. Also I don't agree with you on your point about Beadle's theories not being sound. If you ask me Beadle is right as regards the Ripper more than any other expert Ripperologist. Have you read Beadle's book Jack the Ripper Unmasked? If not I suggest you do.

Cheers John
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-28-2016, 06:17 AM
Iconoclast Iconoclast is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 883
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wheat View Post
Hi YoumRippur

I assume that there is reference to the time of death in the diary. However I don't know for sure as I have not read the diary. Largely because as Beadle says Maybrick is not a creditable Ripper suspect. Also I don't agree with you on your point about Beadle's theories not being sound. If you ask me Beadle is right as regards the Ripper more than any other expert Ripperologist. Have you read Beadle's book Jack the Ripper Unmasked? If not I suggest you do.

Cheers John
Might as well address this head-on: If you have not read the journal, you arguably should not be posting trenchant views on this Casebook. It's rather like commenting on the appropriateness of the 4-4-2 formation without ever having seen a game of football.

You haven't read the journal, but don't worry about that because I suspect you will find that neither has Beadle nor the vast majority of people who comment so categorically about it here on this site and in ill-researched 'textbooks' on the Ripper.

PS For the record, I personally favour a diamond formation - but then I feel I have the right to comment as I've been watching football for 40 years now ...

Ike
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-28-2016, 04:40 PM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,783
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
Might as well address this head-on: If you have not read the journal, you arguably should not be posting trenchant views on this Casebook. It's rather like commenting on the appropriateness of the 4-4-2 formation without ever having seen a game of football.

You haven't read the journal, but don't worry about that because I suspect you will find that neither has Beadle nor the vast majority of people who comment so categorically about it here on this site and in ill-researched 'textbooks' on the Ripper.

PS For the record, I personally favour a diamond formation - but then I feel I have the right to comment as I've been watching football for 40 years now ...

Ike
Hi Ike

I was merely attempting to answer the question as best I could to a cadet on the site. I still gather Maybrick is not a creditable suspect. It should also be noted I have watched at least one documentary that concentrates on the diary, several that look at the diary plus read several articles on the diary. As for Beadle I have read his book Jack the Ripper Unmasked and several articles written by Beadle.

Cheers John
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-29-2016, 02:43 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,218
Default

In 'Jack the Ripper: Unmasked', Beadle puts forth a good argument for MJK's murder occurring later in the morning, on account of Mrs Maxwell's (and others) testimony and the inexact science of rigor mortis. He puts MJK's death to anytime between 10.00 - 10.45 am. My problem with this is that the previous victims were all murdered in the early hours. If we're assuming this was all the work of one killer, he was breaking his usual routine. The streets would've been thronging with people at that time (being the day of the Lord Mayor's show) and although that might have helped him slip into the crowds unnoticed, it would've also increased the risk of getting caught in the act.
__________________
Hail to the king, baby!
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-29-2016, 02:52 AM
Iconoclast Iconoclast is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 883
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wheat View Post
Hi Ike

I was merely attempting to answer the question as best I could to a cadet on the site. I still gather Maybrick is not a creditable suspect. It should also be noted I have watched at least one documentary that concentrates on the diary, several that look at the diary plus read several articles on the diary. As for Beadle I have read his book Jack the Ripper Unmasked and several articles written by Beadle.

Cheers John
John,

Come on, you're posting on the James Maybrick element of the Jack the Riper Casebook. You should read Harrison II (which builds on I), Feldman, and then Linder et alia as these really get into the detail and will prompt a level of thought you are extremely unlikely to ever get from articles or documentaries.

If you're a cadet, fair enough (I apologise if I've been harsh).

Cheers,

Ike
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-29-2016, 02:53 AM
Iconoclast Iconoclast is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 883
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry D View Post
In 'Jack the Ripper: Unmasked', Beadle puts forth a good argument for MJK's murder occurring later in the morning, on account of Mrs Maxwell's (and others) testimony and the inexact science of rigor mortis. He puts MJK's death to anytime between 10.00 - 10.45 am. My problem with this is that the previous victims were all murdered in the early hours. If we're assuming this was all the work of one killer, he was breaking his usual routine. The streets would've been thronging with people at that time (being the day of the Lord Mayor's show) and although that might have helped him slip into the crowds unnoticed, it would've also increased the risk of getting caught in the act.
All theory is good if it is based upon reasonably solid evidence (128 years is a long time for us to hope for just out and out 'solid' evidence).

I'm unfamiliar with Beadle's argument so I can't add anything right now ...

Ike
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-29-2016, 04:08 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
*
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,916
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry D View Post
. The streets would've been thronging with people at that time (being the day of the Lord Mayor's show) and although that might have helped him slip into the crowds unnoticed, it would've also increased the risk of getting caught in the act.
I've got to tell you this is absolutely not true. The Lord Mayor's procession departed from the Guildhall at shortly after 12.30pm, as scheduled, so anyone living in Whitechapel who wanted to go and see it was not likely to have left their house at any time before 11:00am. Further, it was reported that the streets along the route were practically deserted up to 10.30am that morning - no-one was going to be standing for two hours in the rain waiting for the procession to start - and it wasn't until noon that people started flocking into them.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-29-2016, 05:18 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,218
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
I've got to tell you this is absolutely not true. The Lord Mayor's procession departed from the Guildhall at shortly after 12.30pm, as scheduled, so anyone living in Whitechapel who wanted to go and see it was not likely to have left their house at any time before 11:00am. Further, it was reported that the streets along the route were practically deserted up to 10.30am that morning - no-one was going to be standing for two hours in the rain waiting for the procession to start - and it wasn't until noon that people started flocking into them.
Thanks for that, David.

That said, there still would've been more people up and about at the time and a greater gamble for the killer. What if Indian Harry had decided to knock at MJK's place a little earlier? According to Beadle, he could very well have been face to face with the Ripper.
__________________
Hail to the king, baby!
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.