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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Maybrick, James

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  #11  
Old 10-09-2014, 10:34 AM
007 007 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MayBea View Post
I believe artists used to be 500 years ahead of science and are still maybe 50 years ahead. Look at how the St. James Ossuary hoaxer duplicated a aged patina on his Jesus inscription.

That only required hot water and ground chalk and it a while for the hoax to be exposed.

But that doesn't mean you can easily count the Diary with the bone box. More people want to find a Jesus relic than want to find the Ripper Diary so automatic acceptance is much less for the Diary.

The popular opinion can therefore be wrong. It doesn't help when there are competing hoax theories.

Anyone want to nominate Chef Ramsey as the hoaxer?
Using the St. James Ossuary as an example of a hoax may not be correct. The latest scholarship (2014) suggests authenticity.

http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperIn...?PaperID=43671

edit: Added year of latest paper
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  #12  
Old 10-09-2014, 04:07 PM
MayBea MayBea is offline
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You're right, 007. The new science says it's genuine. The owner was acquitted of all forgery charges.

I might not have wasted 16 dollars to see it, after all.

It's funny, 007, but I found somewhere the patina referred to as a James Bond patina.
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  #13  
Old 10-09-2014, 04:50 PM
007 007 is offline
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Very interesting! I've never heard of James Bond Patina. Considering that the ossuary was damaged in transport, I guess you could say the patina was shaken, not stirred!
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2014, 05:38 PM
Damaso Marte Damaso Marte is offline
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He may not have been convicted, but he was caught with a workshop of half-finished religious artifacts and it is odd that one man should discover so many amazing things that have been lost for 2,000+ years
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  #15  
Old 10-09-2014, 07:46 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MayBea View Post
I believe artists used to be 500 years ahead of science and are still maybe 50 years ahead. Look at how the St. James Ossuary hoaxer duplicated a aged patina on his Jesus inscription.

That only required hot water and ground chalk and it a while for the hoax to be exposed.

But that doesn't mean you can easily count the Diary with the bone box. More people want to find a Jesus relic than want to find the Ripper Diary so automatic acceptance is much less for the Diary.

The popular opinion can therefore be wrong. It doesn't help when there are competing hoax theories.

Anyone want to nominate Chef Ramsey as the hoaxer?
Gordon Ramsey is hoaxer, he fools people into thinking he can cook.
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  #16  
Old 10-10-2014, 02:20 AM
Tab Tab is offline
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Thanks for the welcome MayBea.

So it looks like number 3 is pretty elementary, even for someone back in the prehistoric days of the 80's.

Number 1 seems to have divided opinion. It seems that finding a suspect would be very time consuming. You could spend months researching someone only to find a glaring reason why they don't work, you'd then have to start from scratch with someone else. You could repeat this indefinitely until you are lucky enough to find someone that works. Is this really feasible? Would be an interesting experiment to try.

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  #17  
Old 10-10-2014, 02:59 AM
Sally Sally is offline
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Hi Tab -Welcome to the forums.

1) Finding and researching a plausible suspect that no-one has heard of as yet and building a story and motive around that person and his/her life.
2) Finding an unused/mostly unused scrapbook, journal, photo album, notebook... from the late 19th century (or thereabouts).
3) Finding some ink that is consistent with ink used in the late 19th century, and doesn't contain any modern ingredient or contaminant.
4) Disguising your modern handwriting style (Not really sure about this one).
5) Not screwing up a really tiny detail somewhere when writing the whole thing that instantly gives the game away.


1] If that's what happened, the forger would have had to have been quite bright and extremely determined. Alternatively, he/she/they may have had an existing interest in Maybrick [or at least have been familiar with him] and one day thought to themselves [Hey, it'd be great if I/we could pass Maybrick off as JTR! Now, what will we need....?'

2] Not as difficult as you'd think.

3] To replicate convincingly would take in-depth knowledge. Then again, the Diary appeared in the wake of the Hitler Diaries; so perhaps the forger[s] thought a bit of effort was worthwhile?

4] Not really applicable. People writing regularly in the 19th C tended to develop their own style. It didn't always look 'Victorian'

5] Is this a problem? If the Diary is forged, then the forgers can put whatever they like in there. They need a reasonable working knowledge of the case, yes, to avoid any major boo-boos - but they can get away with being fairly general in what they include. At the same time they are at liberty to add whatever invented detail they like. Would such detail be regarded as evidence of forgery; or would they instead be regarded as new, previously unknown information? If the Diary was able to convince, then it'd be the latter.

Thanks for raising some interesting questions. I think it'd be an interesting experiment to see whether the Diary could be easily replicated - are you going to give it go?
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  #18  
Old 10-11-2014, 11:39 AM
pinkmoon pinkmoon is offline
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Don't forget the most important ingredient for the recipe ....a gullible public.
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  #19  
Old 10-11-2014, 08:51 PM
Purkis Purkis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkmoon View Post
Don't forget the most important ingredient for the recipe ....a gullible public.
But there was no gullible public was there? The Sunday Times had all but destroyed the story by the time Shirley Harrison's book was published, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a member of the public who's even heard of the Diary these days.
If it was conceived as a hoax in order to make money out of a 'gullible public', well then it was a monumental failure in every respect.
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  #20  
Old 10-11-2014, 08:53 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purkis View Post
But there was no gullible public was there? The Sunday Times had all but destroyed the story by the time Shirley Harrison's book was published, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a member of the public who's even heard of the Diary these days.
If it was conceived as a hoax in order to make money out of a 'gullible public', well then it was a monumental failure in every respect.


G'day Purkis

By all the reports I have seen it actually made what I anyway would consider a good return.
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