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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Annie Chapman

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Old 06-15-2016, 06:05 PM
Rosella Rosella is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,542

As for baptisms, as a member of the Church of England, I can only say that it is about three to six weeks after birth usually. If a baby is extremely ill and not expected to live, then of course it is baptised a lot sooner, sometimes hours after birth. There is no baptism for the dead in the Anglican Church.

That resulted unfortunately in stillborn babies sometimes being smuggled into the coffins of their mothers if the mothers had died during childbirth, in the 19th century and previously, as dead unbaptised babies were not allowed a burial site on consecrated ground ie churchyards.
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:34 AM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Yorkshire England
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Originally Posted by MysterySinger View Post
A little odd that one Debra. At least the date of the marriage is one we can be sure of owing to the availability on line of the certificate. The army record might be a mistake or I'm wondering whether it may have been an attempt to disguise the fact that Annie was born before her parents tied the knot. Is there anything in there that shows his or Ruth's whereabouts in 1851 or 1841 even? Is the army record available on line?

As noted there are a small number of possible births recorded that might be Annie's. I think she was using Eliza more than Annie in the early days and I wonder whether she could have been registered simply as Eliza. One possibility in that case which provides a reasonable match is below

Registered Jul/Aug/Sep 1841 - Eliza Smith registered at Kensington (which seems to fit)

Similarly, in the same quarter, an Eliza Ann Smith was registered at St Pancras but this location may be unlikely (?).
MS-My thoughts are that the marriage was backdated by George for the army records to cover Annie's illegitimate birth, or, the couple were pretending to be married at that time and living as a married couple in barracks.

George Smith joined the 2nd Regiment Life Guards as a boy aged 15 and left in 1862 after 24 years continued service with that regiment. There was no service abroad for the 2nd Life Guards. The army records are from 2 different sources. His pension record is on FMP but the marriage detail I posted is from the NA's WO 400 series. He had an excellent service record. Details in the service records are sparse because of the early date of the records {later records are much fuller} . George was born in Waddington Lincolnshire (from both sets of army records), rather than 'London' which stated in the 1861 census.

Annie's birth place is usually given as 'Knightsbridge' which could be reference to the Hyde Park Barracks, a base of the 2nd Life Guards that was in the Ecclesiastical District 'All Saints Knightsbridge.' It is possible that the actual place of birth as 'Knightsbridge' has come about because this is used as the address in the April 1842 christening record though and obviously refers to the barracks in that case. The registration district for the Hyde Park Kensington barracks would be Westminster I think.

Neither George nor his family are recorded at the Hyde Park barracks in 1851 where we see a large number of the 2nd Regiment Life Guards stationed (H107/ 1480 page 9 to 29 -although you've probably already looked here) there are no missing or damaged pages. If he wasn't discharged until 1862 though, he may have been living off barracks as they aren't in barracks in the 1861 census either are they?
,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

Last edited by Debra A : 06-16-2016 at 01:45 AM.
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