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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Police Officials and Procedures > Littlechild, Chief Inspector John George

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  #1  
Old 02-16-2008, 09:00 PM
Ally Ally is offline
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Default Littlechild and the Strange Case of Harry Thaw

apwolf has just posted in the Littlechild, Chief Inspector John George forum of Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums under the title of Littlechild and The Strange Case of Harry Thaw.

This thread is located at http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5512

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
Chris
you really got to learn to read my posts correctly and carefully, then you will see that I am as equally correct and careful in what I say, and quote.

Everything I say or quote is from material in the New York Times.
It is really quite simple to subscribe. You go to their very modern website, type in your email address, and then you have access to their entire archives.

I don't see why I should spend hours and days plundering this rich source of information whilst you hurl plastic fruit out of your pram at anyone walking past.

Do a bit of work for a change you lazy lump before you next bite the keyboard with your teeth.
***************



cgp100 has just posted in the Littlechild, Chief Inspector John George forum of Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums under the title of Littlechild and The Strange Case of Harry Thaw.

This thread is located at http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5512

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************

---Quote (Originally by apwolf)---
Do a bit of work for a change you lazy lump before you next bite the keyboard with your teeth.
---End Quote---

I always become suspicious when someone makes an assertion on these boards, and when asked to back it up (i) claims they have already done so, but is unable to say where, (ii) says it's up to me to find the evidence for myself and (iii) becomes abusive.


So I'll ask again. What is the evidence for your assertion that "we know the Carlton Hotel incident was being discussed in 1904, by Scotland Yard, by the American Embassy and by the English press"?


Chris Phillips


cgp100 has just posted in the Littlechild, Chief Inspector John George forum of Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums under the title of Littlechild and The Strange Case of Harry Thaw.

This thread is located at http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5512

Here is the message that has just been posted:
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---Quote (Originally by JMenges)---
Let's clear this up...

The Carlton Hotel incident with the bellboy was not being discussed by the American Embassy and by the English Press in 1904.

---End Quote---

Many thanks for clearing this up!

Chris Phillips
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has just posted in the Littlechild, Chief Inspector John George forum of Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums under the title of Littlechild and The Strange Case of Harry Thaw.

This thread is located at http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5512

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
'This whole thing about the American Embassy, the London Press, and Scotland Yard had absolutely nothing to do with the whipping of a bellboy at the Carleton Hotel, where Thaw was staying alone at the time.'


Go back, JM, read my post again, and you will see that I never said it was.
I never mentioned the whipping of a bellboy at all. I said that the Thaw's activities whilst in London were investigated by those three agencies, as they were.

The thrust of my argument has been all along that the bellboy incident would have come up in other sources considering the intense interest shown in their general activities in London in 1903, but it doesn't... not a mention.

Do you honestly think that the 'Throne' in 1907 would not have generated a storm about the whipping of a poor English bellboy by a mad American millionaire in a London hotel in 1903?

Of course they would; and they investigated the circumstances of the Thaw's stay in London in that year very carefully indeed.


You know a grip on reality here would do everyone a bit of good.
After Thaw had tied this bellboy to a bedstead, beat him mercilessly with a horse whip until he bled profusely all over the place, then released him, bunged him a bath and rubbed salt all over his wounds... what do you think, JM, that Thaw did with his battered and bleeding bellhop?

Remembering that Thaw found himself in one of the busiest hotels in Europe, corridors and rooms full of influential guests and busy co-workers of the battered, bruised and bleeding bellhop.

Did Thaw send him on his way with a cable for the New York Times, clutching his stolen sovereign for which he had almost paid for with his life?

Did the lad arrive at reception and did reception say to him 'Bejesus! What the hell happened to you?'
And did the lad whimper and say 'nothing'?
Imagine you have just been beaten half to death for a single sovereign that you have just stolen, you are covered in whip whelts, bleeding and itching from the salt in those wounds, and this has been done by an American millionaire.

You are not sitting on your arse anymore, you are sitting on a ****ing fortune.
Who would the management of the hotel believe?
The bleeding boy covered in whip marks?
Or the man who claims he whipped the boy because he stole a sovereign from him?
One can imagine the chief inspector from Scotland Yard, called in to investigate the matter.
'Now then Mister Thaw, so you have whipped and beaten this young boy to within an inch of his life, and then salted him down like some young cod, because he stole a sovereign off you?'

'That's correct, officer.'
'Well buggar me, pass me the whip I'll give 'im some me good self!' exclaims the good officer.

The bellboy had god on his side; and you boys can ram as many square pegs into as many round holes as you like, but I ain't in the mood for sugar sweet.

***************
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  #2  
Old 02-16-2008, 09:01 PM
Ally Ally is offline
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cgp100 has just posted in the Littlechild, Chief Inspector John George forum of Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums under the title of Littlechild and The Strange Case of Harry Thaw.

This thread is located at http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5512

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************

---Quote (Originally by apwolf)---
'This whole thing about the American Embassy, the London Press, and Scotland Yard had absolutely nothing to do with the whipping of a bellboy at the Carleton Hotel, where Thaw was staying alone at the time.'


Go back, JM, read my post again, and you will see that I never said it was.
I never mentioned the whipping of a bellboy at all. I said that the Thaw's activities whilst in London were investigated by those three agencies, as they were.

---End Quote---

Absolutely unbelievable.

Here's what you wrote:
And I still don't understand why you crow about *the Carlton Hotel incident* being discussed in 1907, 1908 or any other year after 1904, as we know the *Carlton Hotel incident* was being discussed in 1904, by Scotland Yard, by the American Embassy and by the English press.

[my emphasis]
http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.p...0&postcount=80

Can't you see that this kind of thing makes a mockery of any attempt at serious discussion?

Grey Hunter had it right. It's simply not worth wasting time on this nonsense.

Chris Phillips
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apwolf has just posted in the Littlechild, Chief Inspector John George forum of Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums under the title of Littlechild and The Strange Case of Harry Thaw.

This thread is located at http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5512

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
Chris
Thaw maintains that 'Sport' Donnelly went to Scotland Yard in 1903 to investigate the claims that Thaw had whipped a bellboy at the Carlton Hotel in that year, and subsequently found out that there was no foundation to these claims.

This was reported twice in the press.
Thaw made this statement under oath in court.
Donnelly was never called as witness, but he was there, and available.
The prosecution possessed the affidavits produced by Evelyn and Mrs Merrill in which the incident of the bellhop figures greatly.

The prosecution star witness, Dr Flint, admits that these affidavits are malicious perjury.
Which stage coach were you booked out of here on?
***************

JMenges has just posted in the Littlechild, Chief Inspector John George forum of Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums under the title of Littlechild and The Strange Case of Harry Thaw.

This thread is located at http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5512

Here is the message that has just been posted:
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---Quote (Originally by apwolf)---
This was reported twice in the press.
---End Quote---

In 1907.

By the way, the victim in the Carleton Hotel incident went by the name 'Kid' Regan.

And AP,

As you know, according to Nesbit's memoirs, the reason Scotland Yard was not called in immediately was that Thaw paid the hotel off.

JM
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  #3  
Old 02-16-2008, 09:04 PM
Ally Ally is offline
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Hello,
JMenges has just posted in the Littlechild, Chief Inspector John George forum of Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums under the title of Littlechild and The Strange Case of Harry Thaw.
This thread is located at http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5512
Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
Thaw also, by the way, was accused of whipping a boy in Pittsburgh (pre-1907) so badly that he was hospitalized for two days.
Add to that the incident of whipping a boy in 1916 and it becomes obvious that Thaw's (and AP's) claims of these acts of violence all being lies falls very flat.
JM
***************


chrisg has just posted in the Littlechild, Chief Inspector John George forum of Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums under the title of Littlechild and The Strange Case of Harry Thaw.
This thread is located at http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5512
Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
---Quote (Originally by JMenges)---
Thaw also, by the way, was accused of whipping a boy in Pittsburgh (pre-1907) so badly that he was hospitalized for two days.

Add to that the incident of whipping a boy in 1916 and it becomes obvious that Thaw's (and AP's) claims of these acts of violence all being lies falls very flat.

JM
---End Quote---

Hi JM

I agree 100%. It seems as if AP in his desire to question the credentials of the Littlechild letter is determined to naysay what seems to have been a trait in Thaw's character that the millionaire displayed time and again.

Chris
***************


apwolf has just posted in the Littlechild, Chief Inspector John George forum of Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Forums under the title of Littlechild and The Strange Case of Harry Thaw.
This thread is located at http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5512
Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
But of course Thaw wasn't convicted of any such crime until much later, was he? So you talk of hearsay; and you judge a man guilty when courts had declared him innocent.
And you still use Evelyn's discredited testimony to discredit him.
If you lot were in charge of the criminal justice system I'd just slit my throat and accuse a bellboy of beating me to death in the lift as he was about to send a cable to New York saying how well I was.
I'd still like to hear your floor plan of just how Harry Thaw beat this bellboy to almost death and got away with it in the Carlton Hotel of 1903.
He must have used the dummy waiter, eh?
I do like the way that Grey exits the thread, and then suddenly the dogs of war arrive, saliva dripping off their jaws and eager for the kill.
Well, dogs of war, your master may not have the balls for a fight, but I do, so let's have it JM, which testicle shall you lick for next wound?
Right or wrong? Or left.
Your master waits.
***************
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