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  #11  
Old 12-10-2017, 07:41 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curious View Post
.... So, why can't an owner turn down a special order when it conflicts with his personal beliefs?
It was my understanding a private business owner can refuse service to anyone.
He doesn't have to give a reason, like a landlord in a pub who can refuse service without giving a reason.
I don't agree with the reason this baker gives for refusing service, but it's his right to refuse service. If I understand this correctly, it's the reason he chose to give which makes it unlawful, race, religion, sex, etc. are not justifiable reason's.

This is why I think he is making a political issue out of it, he didn't need to give a reason, but he chose to give a controversial reason instead of avoiding the controversy altogether. But, as with many others, I maybe have not heard the whole story yet.
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  #12  
Old 12-10-2017, 10:20 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Good point, Wickerman, ŕnd I think it started with the lawsuit brought by the prospective clients, because of the baker's stated reason for his refusal of their business. Colorado law doesn't allow discrimination against others on the basis of race, national origin, religion, gender, sexual preference, legal status, or mental or physical handicap. Colorado judges have supported the plaintiffs, and the Baker is hoping a conservative Supreme Court will overrule our State Supreme Court.

it is definitely politicized, I think.
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  #13  
Old 12-10-2017, 11:35 PM
John G John G is offline
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Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
During oral argument the justices were asking about a message that you don't agree with. What if someone came into a Jewish bakery and requested a cake with a message that said we need another Holocaust? Should the Jewish baker be required by law to make it? These are tough questions.

c.d.
Would a baker be entitled to refuse to bake a cake for someone on account of their race or religion? There is, of course, the Civil Rights Act, 1964, but this legislation only applies to public accommodation, which includes "any restaurant, cafeteria, lunch room, soda fountain, or other facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises..."
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  #14  
Old 12-11-2017, 12:07 AM
John G John G is offline
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Like so many US Supreme Court cases these days- a Court sharply divided on ideological lines- it looks like the decision will be determined by Anthony M Kennedy's swing vote: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/u...iage-cake.html
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  #15  
Old 12-11-2017, 01:07 AM
curious curious is offline
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Isn't this the case where a young employee accepted the order, but once the owners realized the cake was for a gay wedding, they then turned it down?
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  #16  
Old 12-11-2017, 04:50 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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It’s a tough one, but I’m leaning towards the gay couple on this one.

Although if I were gay and this happened to me, I wouldn’t want anything to do with the owner, his business etc, and move on. But I suppose they are doing it for the principal of it and for future situations.
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  #17  
Old 12-11-2017, 04:55 AM
Ally Ally is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curious View Post
Or should a Muslim caterer be required to make sausage balls for a brunch? Would they be required to cook bacon recipes, etc. There has to be a way to respect everyone . . .

The muslim caterer gets to offer a menu of what services they do and do not provide. No outside force can come in and demand you make something not on your menu.

The way to respect everyone is: if a baker disagrees with legal marriages in this country, don't make wedding cakes, just like the muslim baker doesn't cook pork products.

End of problem.
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  #18  
Old 12-11-2017, 06:11 AM
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caz caz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
It’s a tough one, but I’m leaning towards the gay couple on this one.

Although if I were gay and this happened to me, I wouldn’t want anything to do with the owner, his business etc, and move on. But I suppose they are doing it for the principal of it and for future situations.
I agree with you, Abby.

There's also the little matter of why you'd want to force someone to make food or drink for you if that person is reluctant because they happen to have a personal problem with your sexuality, religion, hair colour or whatever. I was brought up to believe it's never wise to upset the person with the power to secretly spit in your soup - or worse.

If someone wanted to refuse me one of the services or products they openly offer, on the grounds of who I am or what I believe in, I wouldn't want to give them my custom. Similarly if they were okay with serving me but refusing to serve others, I hope I'd walk out and take my custom elsewhere. But I'd still like to see them exposed and ridiculed for their stupidity and to lose business as a result.

Love,

Caz
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  #19  
Old 12-11-2017, 06:23 AM
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caz caz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ally View Post
The muslim caterer gets to offer a menu of what services they do and do not provide. No outside force can come in and demand you make something not on your menu.

The way to respect everyone is: if a baker disagrees with legal marriages in this country, don't make wedding cakes, just like the muslim baker doesn't cook pork products.

End of problem.
Exactly, Ally.

If bakers want to make money out of flogging wedding cakes, it should be none of their business who is actually getting married assuming it's a legal union. If they don't want to flog wedding cakes for same sex marriages, tough. They needn't offer the service at all. It's not like there aren't a million other excuses and occasions for people to want a special cake. I'd have one made right now with "Happy Monday Afternoon" written on it if it wouldn't play such havoc with my efforts to squeeze into my Christmas party frocks.

Love,

Caz
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Last edited by caz : 12-11-2017 at 06:25 AM.
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  #20  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:53 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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I certainly wouldn’t want to eat a cake that someone had been forced against their will, for whatever reason, to make for me
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