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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #21  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:07 PM
spyglass spyglass is offline
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This was done a few years back for a TV documentary.
As I remember it,it was narrowed down to the killer living in Flower and Dean Street , and apparently this road at the time had seen a lot of police door to door activity.
That said, I would assume any other street in the same proximity would have been just as likely, but at the end if the day surely it's all a 50/ 50 guess

Regards
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  #22  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:14 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
In all geoprofile models it is the base from within which he radiates out from. In the commuter model, it is his point of arrival and he radiates out from there. In the Marauder model it is often a home. The model leans towards Marauder especially in light of Eddowes Apron.

Geoprofiles don't generally find a murder in the hot zone at all. It is usually quite empty and nothing suspicious going on.

This is not the case for the JtR geoprofile. Here we have a murder. Tabram. If something like was discovered with a modern serial offender unaware of geoprofiling it would probably be the most significant find of the case next to hard evidence.
both the hot zone (or should we call it the home zone)and the direction of the apron drop after eddowes murder points to Hutchinson.
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  #23  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:18 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Tabram's murder has significant differences compared to the Ripper murders. The fact that she was killed nearby (as Emma Smith was fatally wounded nearby) is more a reflection of how dangerous that tiny and densely-populated part of the East End was, than of any connection between Tabram's killer and the killer of Nichols, Chapman et al.
Hi sam
I disagree. I think it points more to an escalation in the crimes, especially if one takes into account the attack on millwood several months earlier.

theres no way the rippers MO sprung fully formed with his "first" attack on Nichols.


and seeing that Millwood was attacked close to where Tabram was, as these Maps exemplify, only strengthens the case that all three where ripper victims.
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #24  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:25 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Just in case you all have forgotten, we may actually donīt have to do any geographical mapping at all, since we actually have a man already who had a working path that took him through the killing fields on an every working day basis, and who had firm ties to the murders that occurred outside the Hanbury Street/old Montague street area. He seemingly fits every little bit of the requirements, and to boot, he was actually found standing close by a victim who was still bleeding from her wounds. And not only that, but ... well, you know.

Itīs party-crashing, I know - but I felt I should perhaps spare you the trouble of embarking on something that is very spurious and often leads down serious rabbit holes.

Now, back to the geo-mappings. Good luck, yīall!
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  #25  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:37 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Just in case you all have forgotten, we may actually donīt have to do any geographical mapping at all, since we actually have a man already who had a working path that took him through the killing fields on an every working day basis, and who had firm ties to the murders that occurred outside the Hanbury Street/old Montague street area. He seemingly fits every little bit of the requirements, and to boot, he was actually found standing close by a victim who was still bleeding from her wounds. And not only that, but ... well, you know.

Itīs party-crashing, I know - but I felt I should perhaps spare you the trouble of embarking on something that is very spurious and often leads down serious rabbit holes.

Now, back to the geo-mappings. Good luck, yīall!
Hi fish
I hear ya. I think it might have more merit in the ripper case as he was probably local, more than likely on foot and lived in the area.
I agree its kind of a pseudo science as is profiling in general. some of these FBI guys think they've solved every SK case (especially douglas).

I also agree with RJ re picton and Beltway sniper-Ilived through that one and boy did they sure jack the profile up on that one LOL! and geoprofiling dosnt work when it cases like this and picton. more useful if they know someone is local perhaps.


I mentioned the line batman showed on the map as being useful though because it shows more than likely the killer lived west of mitre square-which would include hutch, bury and of course-Lech.
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #26  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:42 PM
Observer Observer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
both the hot zone (or should we call it the home zone)and the direction of the apron drop after the murder points to Hutchinson.
So in effect Hutchison dropped the most incriminating piece of evidence a mere couple of ninutes walk from where he was apparently living at the time of the murders. Do you think this is likely?
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  #27  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:58 PM
John G John G is offline
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Geographical profiling, but it has it's limitations, particularly when more than one perpetrator is operating in the same area. Moreover, presumably the same analysis would also identify Emma Smith as a victim, ad she was assaulted close to where Tabram was murdered. Okay, I know she claimed to have been attacked by a gang, but that in itself adds weight to the theory that more than one individual was responsible for the Whitechapel murders.
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  #28  
Old 10-19-2018, 01:04 PM
Batman Batman is offline
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Hi Batman. I don't want to come across as though I am needling you, but that's just it. The source you quoted is making false statements.

I lived in the Pacific Northwest at the time of the Pickton murders and at the time of the investigation into Malvo and Muhammad. Geographical profiling had no bearing whatsoever in detecting those criminals. And in both cases the murderers were living a great distance from the scene of the crimes (or, in the latter case, had no home base whatsoever).

Yet these cases are now being heralded as success stories?

Clearly, undeniably, that is utterly misleading. Why doesn't it bother you?

But, whatever. Carry on.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle1377538/

That says Rossmo was ignored which is why Pickton was ignored. It may not have to do with just geographical profiling. It may be related to Keppel's HITS which isn't just geoprofiling. Also geoprofiling takes into consideration commuting offenders as I discussed a few pages back. As for the DC Snipers, HITS may have done something else other than geographic profiling. As I said previously, my reference on Keppel was to do with HITS not just geographic profiling.

Geographic profiling can be hit or miss.

This thread is looking at it from the angle it has already landed on:
  • A homicide.
  • Victim's place of stay.

The hot zone did that. So I am certainly interested in it.
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  #29  
Old 10-19-2018, 01:13 PM
Batman Batman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Just in case you all have forgotten, we may actually donīt have to do any geographical mapping at all, since we actually have a man already who had a working path that took him through the killing fields on an every working day basis, and who had firm ties to the murders that occurred outside the Hanbury Street/old Montague street area.
We haven't forgotten. You are currently engaged in defending that position in another thread with questions like why is he shouting to call people over if he has just murdered someone. People who testified to trying to avoid him because the area was so dark.

If geographic mapping pointed to the home of your Professor Plum with the lead pipe in the ballroom, you would be doing summersaults... but it obviously isn't.

Fitting suspects to all the evidence and not just some evidence to a suspect is how investigations move forward. This geographic profile is probably evidence and your suspect doesn't fit in. That suspect bias stuff is an automatic set of blinders when it comes to evidence. The amount that gets dismissed as coincidence is absurd.

It's interesting how many people who believe in coincidences now need this geographic profile to be yet another coincidence.
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  #30  
Old 10-19-2018, 01:19 PM
Batman Batman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyglass View Post
This was done a few years back for a TV documentary.
As I remember it,it was narrowed down to the killer living in Flower and Dean Street , and apparently this road at the time had seen a lot of police door to door activity.
That said, I would assume any other street in the same proximity would have been just as likely, but at the end if the day surely it's all a 50/ 50 guess

Regards
Yeah, the geographic profile is well known. It's the same Rossmo formula, so once you have the murder coordinates correct, it produces the same geographic profile. I just stuck it on a better quality map than the ones I have found. What I noticed was the old map of Whitechapel which some talented persons have brilliantly decided to annotate with JtR points of interests, has a ton of those points within the hot zone.

That's really interesting because you don't expect geographic profiles to do that at all.

Given Tabram is suspected of being JtR's 'first' victim, the hotzone being on top of her place of residence and just above where she was murdered is much more intriguing than I originally thought it was.

I'm going back to re-reading The Bank Holiday Murders by Tom Wescott because of this.
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