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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #11  
Old 02-15-2018, 04:12 AM
richardh richardh is offline
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So we are back to the theory that the stairs (ORIGINAL) went across the width of the house? If this is the case, and with the ORIGINAL door to 13 being a few feet from the passage wall, then the stairs would be going up and turning to the right onto the landing above?

I have in mind also the discussion we've had in the past regarding the goings on during the lizzie Robets murder in room 19 a few years later. That [suggested] layout needs to be considered in relation to this discussion too.

I have to say that I find this whole subject a HUGH headache and very frustrating as I continue to build my VR Miller's Court. I am trying to arrive at a plan using logic and common sense but I fear any design will fall short of being an accurate version!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
I posted some years ago that the smaller rear window of room 13 may have been the original backdoor, later bricked up as a window.
This back door led to a passage which took you to the stairwell in the center of the house, there being an internal partition wall, later removed, to separate this passage from room 13.

This is the reason the door we see wallpapered over behind the bed is several feet away from the corner of the room. This, I suspect, was the original internal door to enter room 13 from the stairwell. There would have been no backdoor for room 13 originally.
This is very similar to a turn of the century Brownstone terrace house I grew up in.
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  #12  
Old 02-15-2018, 12:03 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Richard I doubt we will ever no for certain and no matter where you place them there will be some who insist it’s wrong.

I will say this, what’s the likelihood they went to a fair bit of expense and moved them when digging the place up for cheap rooms
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  #13  
Old 02-15-2018, 12:23 PM
richardh richardh is offline
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Indeed, GUT
I'm amazed they managed to squeeze 7 rooms into No 26.

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Originally Posted by GUT View Post
Richard I doubt we will ever no for certain and no matter where you place them there will be some who insist it’s wrong.

I will say this, what’s the likelihood they went to a fair bit of expense and moved them when digging the place up for cheap rooms
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  #14  
Old 02-15-2018, 04:25 PM
DJA DJA is offline
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Try visualizing a town house with a back garden and a rear parlor.
The rear parlor had entry through the house and a rear door to access the garden. It was self contained as far as heating and tea making.The chimney suggests original equipment.
The staircase door is an alternative to using the front door.

Millers Court was built much later and the rear parlor partitioned off.

There was a drawing on the internet of an original tall security gate at the back of the passage.
Firefox no longer accesses it,however another browser might.

Keep up the Good Work!

Edit. The original doorway was probably mentioned in some descriptions of the partition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richardh View Post
So we are back to the theory that the stairs (ORIGINAL) went across the width of the house? If this is the case, and with the ORIGINAL door to 13 being a few feet from the passage wall, then the stairs would be going up and turning to the right onto the landing above?

I have in mind also the discussion we've had in the past regarding the goings on during the lizzie Robets murder in room 19 a few years later. That [suggested] layout needs to be considered in relation to this discussion too.

I have to say that I find this whole subject a HUGH headache and very frustrating as I continue to build my VR Miller's Court. I am trying to arrive at a plan using logic and common sense but I fear any design will fall short of being an accurate version!
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Last edited by DJA : 02-15-2018 at 04:54 PM.
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  #15  
Old 02-15-2018, 04:27 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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I was in Hobart recently, some buildings built early-mid 1800s a few were not unlike Miller’s Court.

Shop, lane, shop.

Behind them accommodation accessed via the lane, my first thought, “Miller’s Court” later rearrange$ to make McCarthy’s shop and rooms to rent, plus the shed.
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  #16  
Old 02-15-2018, 04:48 PM
DJA DJA is offline
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Lived the rear of two,Oakleigh and Moorabbin.
Both had return staircases.
Plenty of return staircases have doorways under them. U turn ones allow doorways next to them.
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Last edited by DJA : 02-15-2018 at 05:14 PM.
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  #17  
Old 02-15-2018, 05:52 PM
DJA DJA is offline
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The door to Kelly's room was just nailed shut.
The partitioning may have been original.
Edit. The door is behind her head,in line with the front door in Dorset Street.
It is 3 feet wide and 2 feet from the wall.
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Last edited by DJA : 02-15-2018 at 06:12 PM.
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  #18  
Old 02-15-2018, 07:54 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardh View Post
So we are back to the theory that the stairs (ORIGINAL) went across the width of the house?
Hi Richard.
No, that is not what I tried to describe.

The last 3D model I saw from you was the one you created following our long exchange a couple of years ago. You may have updated it since, so I'm not sure if the 3D model I saved is the final version.

We debated how the floor plan may have looked in 1888, what I was suggesting above was how the floor plan may have originally been, and the stairs have not changed.

In the 3D model the stairs begin aligned with the passage wall, then turn to the right, this is still the best interpretation.
However, under the staircase, where the partition wall abuts to the passage wall, you have a solid partition (beside the sealed up door).

This is where I think there was an arch, or another door (in red), which led to the backyard.
The dashed line is where there was a partition wall, since removed to make room 13 larger.

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  #19  
Old 02-15-2018, 08:05 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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Hi Dave

That's what I've spent the last few days trying to determine, which address did the court originally belong to - No 26 or No 27 or neither or both?

If it belonged to No 27, then I don't see any reason why No 26 had access to the courtyard. I agree tho, everything I've read says Mary's room was a parlour at a prior time.

Unable to determine bc I can only see a couple of decades prior, and the two properties are always listed together. In 71, the properties are advertised for sale as two freehold shops along with 6 houses [Miller's Court].

Hello Richard.

7 rooms is nothing. I saw an ad listing 40 Berners with 11 rooms and a basement
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  #20  
Old 02-15-2018, 08:33 PM
DJA DJA is offline
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Quite possibly built for and owned by different family members.

John Miller was a butcher at 30 Dorset Street who purchased in 1845 and built Miller's Court between then and 1851.
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Last edited by DJA : 02-15-2018 at 08:44 PM.
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