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  #1  
Old 07-11-2016, 03:27 AM
miss marple miss marple is offline
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Default Lechmere graves and tragedy

I want to clear up a few misconceptions as to why to Lechmeres were buried in different parts of Bow Cemetery.
Charles Letchmere died in 1920, he had been living at Rounton Rd Bromley He is buried in a common grave at Tower Hamlets [ Bow] Cemetery because the family could not afford a private grave. Funeral money would be spent on the hearse, the horses the coffin. Eastenders liked to make a show of the funeral. His wife Elizabeth died in 1940 age nearly 90. She had been living at the Central Home Leytonstone,a former workhouse which had been taken over by the council in 1936 for the aged and infirm. She is buried in a common grave. She died in The Blitz, the sustained bombing campaigne against London that started on Sept 7th 1940. It was not possible to bury her in the same common grave as her husband, as he had died twenty years earlier and they were not marked. The cemetery was bombed also during the war.
In 1943 was the Bethnal Green tube disaster in which 173 people died, the most cilvilian deaths in one incident. The underground stations were being used as bomb shelters. On the night of 3d March, at 8.22 the sirens went off. The entrance to Bethnal Green Station was small 10/12 and lit by a 25watt bulb. It had been raining and the steps were slippery. Hundreds of people crowded into the entrance, someone slipped and they all went down like dominos crushed to death. 27 men 84 women, 62 children and 62 injured.
Among the dead were the son of Charles Allen Lechmere, Thomas Allen Lechmere 66, his wife Florence 66, their son, Thomas Charles, 43. Thomas wife, May survived with a few bruises.
Thomas Charles Lechmere was awarded a George Cross [ bravery by cilvilians] forth class i think for trying to save others during the disaster.
Churchill did not allow it to be reported as he thought it would be bad for moral and hand a propaganda tool to the nazis.

Miss Marple

Last edited by miss marple : 07-11-2016 at 03:30 AM.
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Old 07-11-2016, 03:42 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss marple View Post
I want to clear up a few misconceptions as to why to Lechmeres were buried in different parts of Bow Cemetery.
Charles Letchmere died in 1920, he had been living at Rounton Rd Bromley He is buried in a common grave at Tower Hamlets [ Bow] Cemetery because the family could not afford a private grave. Funeral money would be spent on the hearse, the horses the coffin. Eastenders liked to make a show of the funeral. His wife Elizabeth died in 1940 age nearly 90. She had been living at the Central Home Leytonstone,a former workhouse which had been taken over by the council in 1936 for the aged and infirm. She is buried in a common grave. She died in The Blitz, the sustained bombing campaigne against London that started on Sept 7th 1940. It was not possible to bury her in the same common grave as her husband, as he had died twenty years earlier and they were not marked. The cemetery was bombed also during the war.
In 1943 was the Bethnal Green tube disaster in which 173 people died, the most cilvilian deaths in one incident. The underground stations were being used as bomb shelters. On the night of 3d March, at 8.22 the sirens went off. The entrance to Bethnal Green Station was small 10/12 and lit by a 25watt bulb. It had been raining and the steps were slippery. Hundreds of people crowded into the entrance, someone slipped and they all went down like dominos crushed to death. 27 men 84 women, 62 children and 62 injured.
Among the dead were the son of Charles Allen Lechmere, Thomas Allen Lechmere 66, his wife Florence 66, their son, Thomas Charles, 43. Thomas wife, May survived with a few bruises.
Thomas Charles Lechmere was awarded a George Cross [ bravery by cilvilians] forth class i think for trying to save others during the disaster.
Churchill did not allow it to be reported as he thought it would be bad for moral and hand a propaganda tool to the nazis.

Miss Marple
Thanks for that, Miss Marple. I still wonder, though, why Elizabeth was buried as far as possible from her husband. Even if Charlesī grave was not marked, it was still well known just about where it was situated.
Then again, maybe that area did not offer any possibility for a burial whan Elizabeth died, I donīt know. But the fact of the matter is that husband and wife were buried as far apart as possible.
Whether it has any significance or not, I donīt know.
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Old 07-11-2016, 03:52 AM
miss marple miss marple is offline
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It has absolutely no significence. The nature of common graves is that bodies are placed where there is space in a communal grave. If the graves are full they would not be used, twenty years had passed. Also burial in a common grave does not consider relatives. No one is going to search through registers looking for relatives because it has no bearing on the case. The original grave location may have been forgotten to family as there are no markers. There was a war on, more important things to worry about.

Miss Marple
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Old 07-11-2016, 04:02 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss marple View Post
It has absolutely no significence. The nature of common graves is that bodies are placed where there is space in a communal grave. If the graves are full they would not be used, twenty years had passed. Also burial in a common grave does not consider relatives. No one is going to search through registers looking for relatives because it has no bearing on the case. The original grave location may have been forgotten to family as there are no markers. There was a war on, more important things to worry about.

Miss Marple
I donīt think that you or I can conclude what significance it had, Miss Marple. Whether we like to think so is another matter.
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Old 07-11-2016, 04:54 AM
miss marple miss marple is offline
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Its facts. Bodies in a common grave are buried where there is space. The poor don't have choices.

Miss Marple
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Old 07-11-2016, 04:59 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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I don't think it's true that the family couldn't afford to bury Charles in a private grave. He left Ģ262.00 in his will, a considerable sum in 1920.

Thomas Lechmere did not win the British George Cross, which as Miss Marple states is awarded to civilians. He was presented with the Cross of St George by the Russian Tsarist authorities for blowing up a railway line and capturing a train during WWI. He was also awarded the British MM for bravery while serving in Russia. There is no evidence that he performed any acts of bravery in the aftermath of the Bethnal Green tube bombing.

While it's true that the families of those buried in communal graves had no say in exactly where the grave was located, in this case it would seem it was very much the family's (his wife's?) choice that Charles should be buried in one in the first place.

Last edited by MrBarnett : 07-11-2016 at 05:02 AM.
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Old 07-11-2016, 05:05 AM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Thank you both for your research and information about this, Miss Marple and Mr. Barnett. I had not heard about the accident in the bomb shelter, which sounds terrible.

Re the wife picking a common grave for Charles, perhaps she was merely being as thrifty as he had been, and saved money where possible. Interesting.
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Old 07-14-2016, 09:50 PM
Columbo Columbo is offline
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Hi Miss Marple,

So what is the rule concerning personal graves there? I know it Italy they recycle private graves every 20 years or so. I have relatives buried that are about to be moved from the grave to a mausoleum. I was curious because I saw a Stephen Knight documentary from 1979 and he went to William Gull's grave and I was surprised it was still there.

Columbo
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Old 07-15-2016, 06:08 PM
Columbo Columbo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss marple View Post
It has absolutely no significence. The nature of common graves is that bodies are placed where there is space in a communal grave. If the graves are full they would not be used, twenty years had passed. Also burial in a common grave does not consider relatives. No one is going to search through registers looking for relatives because it has no bearing on the case. The original grave location may have been forgotten to family as there are no markers. There was a war on, more important things to worry about.

Miss Marple
As I'm going to continue to "assume" This is the simplest and most logical explanation and it also comes from a professional in the field, unlike the second hand explanations and interpretations of others professional opinions that haunt this forum from time to time.

It has been intimated although not said outright that Liz consciously chose not to be buried with Charles because he was a killer. Since there is no concrete evidence (contemporary or otherwise) that Lechmere was a killer there is absolutely no reason to accept this is why she was buried where she was. They had several children and it may very well have been their decision where to bury her.

It is apparent that Miss Marple is correct. Pro-suspect people tend to make ambiguous statements and insinuations, such as the case here, and then when cornered by a question or request they tend to pull out the old standard "We'll never know" or "You can't be sure and shouldn't speculate", when this is what they're doing on other threads to boast their theory.

Hypocrisy is rampant and when you see it in writing, you realize how ridiculous people can be when they don't want to face facts.

Columbo
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Old 07-15-2016, 06:20 PM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Columbo View Post
As I'm going to continue to "assume" This is the simplest and most logical explanation and it also comes from a professional in the field, unlike the second hand explanations and interpretations of others professional opinions that haunt this forum from time to time.

It has been intimated although not said outright that Liz consciously chose not to be buried with Charles because he was a killer. Since there is no concrete evidence (contemporary or otherwise) that Lechmere was a killer there is absolutely no reason to accept this is why she was buried where she was. They had several children and it may very well have been their decision where to bury her.

It is apparent that Miss Marple is correct. Pro-suspect people tend to make ambiguous statements and insinuations, such as the case here, and then when cornered by a question or request they tend to pull out the old standard "We'll never know" or "You can't be sure and shouldn't speculate", when this is what they're doing on other threads to boast their theory.

Hypocrisy is rampant and when you see it in writing, you realize how ridiculous people can be when they don't want to face facts.

Columbo
Are you a professional police officer or detective? Or if not, what is your profession?

Jeff
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