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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Maybrick, James

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  #671  
Old 01-26-2018, 08:18 AM
StevenOwl StevenOwl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer View Post
Then by the answers you have provided you have nailed yourself to the "old hoax" mast
Have I? I thought I was just pointing out that some things need explaining before I'll accept Mike Barrett as our master forger.
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  #672  
Old 01-26-2018, 08:20 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
give a hypothetical example of "proof" that he forged it.
No need for a hypothetical example, the evidence he forged it, or was a party to its forgery, is contained in the first signed affidavit.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
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  #673  
Old 01-26-2018, 08:39 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is online now
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Originally Posted by StevenOwl View Post
For me, if there was an official record of Mike Barrett (or Anne Graham, or Tony Devereaux), between 1989 and 1992, visiting the archives where private Maybrick family info could be obtained then I'd say that was as close to a smoking gun as we're going to get.

Or perhaps if the auction house where Barrett claimed to have bought the diary from were to confirm that he did indeed purchase that very photograph album as part of a job lot.
Thanks Owl

but one could just come up with another ludicrous reason for these "coincidences", like they have for every other one.

and these examples to me don't even come close to:

He admitted hoaxing it in a sworn affidavit
he attempted to obtain a Victorian diary with blank pages
the use of "one off instance"

nor the ludicrous explanations for these!

I mean if these aren't "proof" enough- nothing will prove it to the diary defenders.
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  #674  
Old 01-26-2018, 09:02 AM
Henry Flower Henry Flower is offline
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Kaz, did you ask permission to quote from that private message on the public forum?
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  #675  
Old 01-26-2018, 09:20 AM
Kaz Kaz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Flower View Post
Kaz, did you ask permission to quote from that private message on the public forum?


No, didn't realise I needed to...

Pinks opinions change daily, its not something he keeps hidden..

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=7657
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  #676  
Old 01-26-2018, 10:17 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Thanks, Steven
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenOwl View Post
That Gladys Maybrick was frequently unwell as a child; that JM referred to himself and liked to be called Sir Jim/Sir James when at home; that JM found a new supplier for his arsenic at a specific point towards the end of his life. I believe that none of those things were common knowledge in the late '80s/'90s and were only verified by searching in archives after the Diary came to light.
David Orsam has shown that the Gladys's sickliness was reported in various newspapers, and could be easily researched. Even without research, I have to say that it's quite common for a 3-year-old child to be frequently sick, so this being mentioned in the diary might simply be a lucky guess on the author's part, and not a very risky one at that.

David also casts considerable doubt on Maybrick's ever being known as "Sir Jim/James" at home. I'd just observe that "Sir Jim" appears in the diary not as a nickname, rather as a means of reinforcing Maybrick's recurring fantasy of being knighted. It wouldn't take a genius to dream up such a device, nor would it require any research; anyone who wanted to depict Maybrick as a crazed egomaniac might easily have him imagine being ennobled by the illustrious Queen Victoria.

If the diarist(s) had had more imagination, they might well have elevated him to the peerage, in which case we'd be talking about "Lord Jim" and no tenuous connection with Maybrick's (supposed) domestic nickname would have been made. Besides, the diary refers to Maybrick as "Sir Jack" almost as often as it refers to "Sir Jim" - if not more so. It therefore appears quite likely that the author was thinking of Maybrick-as-Ripper, not Maybrick's domestic persona, when writing these "Sir Jim/Jack" passages.

As to the new arsenic supplier, I think it probable that the diary is referring, not to the fact that Maybrick has found a new pharmacist, but that he's found murder to be a good substitute for his drugs: "Have I not found a new source for my medicine. I relish the thoughts that it will bring me. I enjoy thinking of the whores waiting for my nice shining knife". The word "medicine" is being used entirely metaphorically in this context - arsenic gives him a high, and now killing gives him a high.
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 01-26-2018 at 10:26 AM.
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  #677  
Old 01-26-2018, 10:51 AM
rjpalmer rjpalmer is offline
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Kaz, thanks for the link.

Quote:
"forger lost bottle and never tried to unleash this on general public"

Reminds me of an observation once made by Peter Birchwood, who suggested that the Diary contains this very phrase.

At one point, Sir Jim makes a comment that Harrison/Smith have transcribed as "I have lost my battle," but, looking directly at the handwritten text, PB cleverly suggested that it actually reads "I have lost my bottle," showing the forgers were not above tossing out the odd modern idiom heard down the boozer.

As you can imagine, this observation didn't go over too well. I'm not sure if Peter was tweaking noses just for jollies, or whether he believed this was the correct transcription. Enjoy your weekend.
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  #678  
Old 01-26-2018, 11:38 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenOwl View Post
What about the fact that the Diary contains several throwaway references to everyday things/events in the life of the Maybricks which, between 1989 and 1992, could only be obtained from documents buried in rarely accessed archives?
None of the three examples you give, Steven, demonstrate that the Diary contains references to things which could only have been obtained from documents buried in rarely accessed archives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenOwl View Post
That Gladys Maybrick was frequently unwell as a child;
As Sam Flynn has mentioned, that one was disproved by me last year.

See: www.orsam.co.uk/maybrickthefalsefacts.htm

In short, the comment made by Margaret Baillie in a letter dated 13 April 1889 that Gladys was ill "again" was published in contemporary newspapers reporting the Maybrick trial. But even more than this, the evidence only shows that Gladys was ill on more than one occasion during 1889. There is precisely zero evidence in archives, or anywhere else, that Gladys was ever ill during 1888, which is the year in which the diary tells us she was ill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenOwl View Post
JM referred to himself and liked to be called Sir Jim/Sir James when at home;
You are quite mistaken, No evidence has ever been produced that JM ever referred to himself as either Sir Jim or Sir James nor that he liked to be called this when at home. You need to stop copying from Robert Smith's (inaccurate) book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenOwl View Post
that JM found a new supplier for his arsenic at a specific point towards the end of his life.
The information that JM obtained arsenic from Valentine Blake in February 1889 was first published in J.H. Levy's 1899 book 'The Necessity for Criminal Appeal' and was repeated in the modern secondary literature, for example in 'The Poisoned Life of Mrs Maybrick' by Bernard Ryan. So this is another non-point.

The fact of the matter is that there really isn't any information about Maybrick's life described in the Diary that could only have been obtained from "rarely accessed archives".
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  #679  
Old 01-26-2018, 12:14 PM
Scott Nelson Scott Nelson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
No evidence has ever been produced that JM ever referred to himself as either Sir Jim or Sir James nor that he liked to be called this when at home.
What about the Trevor Christie Collection of letters housed at the University of Wyoming used for research on Christie's book? Didn't one written by Florence Aunspaugh allegedly state that Maybrick referred to himself as "Sir Jim"?
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  #680  
Old 01-26-2018, 12:20 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Nelson View Post
What about the Trevor Christie Collection of letters housed at the University of Wyoming used for research on Christie's book? Didn't one written by Florence Aunspaugh allegedly state that Maybrick referred to himself as "Sir Jim"?
No, it didn't.
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