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  #281  
Old 09-13-2018, 09:25 PM
Karl Karl is offline
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Originally Posted by DirectorDave View Post
Yes he was talking about illegal immigration, he constantly mentioned the big beautiful door in his wall for those who follow due process.
Even if we stipulate the above, it still doesn't help your case. Because like I said earlier:

What he did, however, was calling Mexican illegals criminals, and not just criminals because of their illegal status, but because they raped and murdered and were generally nasty people. That was his selling argument for the wall. Not that "illegals are criminals by default", because that doesn't justify building a brand new wall. Trump's point was that illegals are rapists, drug dealers and killers. Not just some of them, but practically all.
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  #282  
Old 09-14-2018, 12:49 AM
DirectorDave DirectorDave is offline
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Originally Posted by Karl View Post
Even if we stipulate the above, it still doesn't help your case. Because like I said earlier:
I don't require it to help my case, you are the one requiring it because if you can't accept that then we have no discussion.

Quote:
"What he did, however, was calling Mexican illegals criminals
Which they are, they are theifs too stealing resources of American people and legal immigrants who went through the correct process.


Quote:
and not just criminals because of their illegal status, but because they raped and murdered and were generally nasty people.
Well they are not sending thier finest that's for sure.


Quote:
That was his selling argument for the wall. Not that "illegals are criminals by default", because that doesn't justify building a brand new wall. Trump's point was that illegals are rapists, drug dealers and killers. Not just some of them, but practically all.
Replace "practically all" with "many" and I think we can have a consensus.

Perhaps if you stopped playing silly bloody semantics in future debates we can reach a resolution with more brevity....i'm sure it will be more enjoyable, bigly.
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  #283  
Old 09-14-2018, 01:13 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by DirectorDave View Post
Well they are not sending thier finest that's for sure.
"Sending"? Isn't it the case that economic migrants, whether legal or otherwise, tend to leave their native country on their own initiative?

Or were you being metaphorical, in the same way that you categorised illegal immigrants as "thieves" of people's rights and resources?
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  #284  
Old 09-14-2018, 04:28 AM
Karl Karl is offline
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Originally Posted by DirectorDave View Post
I don't require it to help my case, you are the one requiring it because if you can't accept that then we have no discussion.
This doesn't even begin to make sense. If the words you utter do not support your argument, even by your own admission here, why utter them at all? Here's how discussion works:

I present my arguments, and I require my arguments to help my case.
You then present your arguments, and you require your arguments to help your case. If your arguments do not help your case, then you have no case. That's why you require your arguments to help. I do not require anything of your arguments, why would I?



Quote:
Which they are, they are theifs too stealing resources of American people and legal immigrants who went through the correct process.
Which is irrelevant in this discussion.


Quote:
Well they are not sending thier finest that's for sure.
They're not sending anyone. Illegals move on their own accord, in no small part due to the illegal weapon trafficking from the US, which bolsters crime. Be that as it may, the illegals who come over are normal people, who may well be among the finest. What, do you think they sneak across the border because they want to live a life of crime in the US? No, just the opposite: they want to escape crime. The primary motivation is, of course, an escape from poverty. But if someone has decided to pursue crime, there is no reason to leave Mexico for it. Some turn to crime in the US, but in most of these cases it isn't something they planned. But poverty and prejudice cause frustration, and some people will be pushed over the edge.


Quote:
Replace "practically all" with "many" and I think we can have a consensus.
But that isn't what you mean, is it? You do mean practically all, or you would have countered what I said with something other than "Well they are not sending thier finest that's for sure". Because what that is, is a tacit admission. Here, try this one on for size:

A: "So you're suggesting that Jews are evil?"
B: "Well, they're not the good guys, that's for sure."

What does the above say of B's position? If A were incorrect, B would have contradicted A, surely? Instead, B attempted a half-hearted justification of his position instead. Just like you did.

And when you say "many", we both know you mean "most", or "practically all". I'll prove it: rate the below statements in terms of strongly agree, agree, undecided, disagree or strongly disagree:

1. Almost all illegal immigrants are good people who, aside from their illegal status, are just as law-abiding as anyone else.
2. Most illegal immigrants are good people who, aside from their illegal status, are just as law-abiding as anyone else.
3. Many illegal immigrants are good people who, aside from their illegal status, are just as law-abiding as anyone else.
4. Some illegal immigrants are good people who, aside from their illegal status, are just as law-abiding as anyone else.
5. A few illegal immigrants are good people who, aside from their illegal status, are just as law-abiding as anyone else.
6. Practically no illegal immigrant is a good person who, aside from his or her illegal status, is just as law-abiding as anyone else.


Quote:
Perhaps if you stopped playing silly bloody semantics in future debates we can reach a resolution with more brevity....i'm sure it will be more enjoyable, bigly.
Well, that's a clear cut case of projection if ever there was one. The semantic nitpicking is entirely on you. No one else. You are the one who have been trying to use semantics to pretend Trump said something he clearly didn't, and we others have been forced to use semantics to explain to you why you are wrong. No one would have bothered with a semantic argument here if it wasn't for you.
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  #285  
Old 09-14-2018, 06:30 AM
DirectorDave DirectorDave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
"Sending"? Isn't it the case that economic migrants, whether legal or otherwise, tend to leave their native country on their own initiative?

Or were you being metaphorical, in the same way that you categorised illegal immigrants as "thieves" of people's rights and resources?
I was not being metaphorical with "sending" I was quoting Trump directly from his golden elevator speech.

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best (he looks up and points to people watching) they are not sending you or you."

"Theives" was not metaphorical, they are using resources meant for US tax payers, legal immigrants and asylum seekers.
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  #286  
Old 09-14-2018, 06:40 AM
DirectorDave DirectorDave is offline
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Karl when you are ready to talk politics or even policy get back to me, but that nonsense you just wrote seems like once again to focus on process rather than delivery...that is a real problem with leftist think.

"Rightest" think? yes they very often ignore process for results....but it is not the right who are batshit crazy at the moment.


This is the same converstion I have with every non-deplorable.


The opener....

He's racist he's sexist he's homophobic.

He said Mexicans are rapists.

He called a Mexican Judge Mexican.


Once that guff is out the way I then have to trudge through the guff of ***** grabbing and when all else fails there is always....


10 PRINT "RUSSIA"
20 GOTO 10


RUN


RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
__________________
My opinion is all I have to offer here,

Dave.

Smilies are canned laughter.
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  #287  
Old 09-14-2018, 08:26 AM
Karl Karl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirectorDave View Post
I was not being metaphorical with "sending" I was quoting Trump directly from his golden elevator speech.

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best (he looks up and points to people watching) they are not sending you or you."

"Theives" was not metaphorical, they are using resources meant for US tax payers, legal immigrants and asylum seekers.
Except when illegals find work in the US, they pay taxes, too. In sum, they probably give more than they take.
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  #288  
Old 09-14-2018, 08:33 AM
Karl Karl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirectorDave View Post
Karl when you are ready to talk politics or even policy get back to me, but that nonsense you just wrote seems like once again to focus on process rather than delivery...that is a real problem with leftist think.
We weren't discussing politics - we were discussing how Trump demonises Mexican illegals. But you keep trying to excuse him with your semantic games.


Quote:
"Rightest" think? yes they very often ignore process for results....but it is not the right who are batshit crazy at the moment.
Judging by the incumbent, and the ardent defences of him here in face of all logic, I would argue to the contrary.


This is the same converstion I have with every non-deplorable.


Quote:
The opener....

He's racist he's sexist he's homophobic.
I never said any of those things, though I can certainly say now that he is sexist and racist. He is not, however, homophobic, as demonstrated by his very liberal statements in gays' defence in his first run for president.


Quote:
He said Mexicans are rapists.
Well, he did.


Quote:
He called a Mexican Judge Mexican.
No, he called a Mexican judge biased because he was Mexican.



Quote:
Once that guff is out the way I then have to trudge through the guff of ***** grabbing and when all else fails there is always....
If it weren't for people like you trying to make excuses that don't even half stick, maybe you'd have a point. Or maybe, in that case, even you would realise what a public relations disaster he is.


Quote:
10 PRINT "RUSSIA"
20 GOTO 10


RUN


RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
RUSSIA
Funny. Almost as funny as how obsessed Trump is about that. To the point that this was the first thing on his mind on the 9/11 anniversary this year.
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  #289  
Old 09-14-2018, 08:56 AM
DirectorDave DirectorDave is offline
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I hope given the interview with the Sailsburry suspects the idea that Russia could have any serious impact on a US election is fantasy land stuff.

We clearly are not dealing with a soviet era KGB or GRU.


Black unemployment at historic lows.....the thing is the people who are pleased about this the most (other than the person who now has a job) are the people the non-deplorables label white supremisists.

8 years Obama had to enact a growth policy....he offered nothing but food stamps.

The joke in the 90's was that Bill Clinton was the first "black president"...even though he put record number in jail and on the dole queue.

There can be little doubt which of the last 4 presidents are really rooting for African Americans and that's why they are leaving the Democratic Party plantation in droves.

With a little help from Candace Owens, who I wish was not so hot so I could say I only like her for the way she thinks.
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My opinion is all I have to offer here,

Dave.

Smilies are canned laughter.
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  #290  
Old 09-14-2018, 10:36 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirectorDave View Post
Black unemployment at historic lows...
Assuming that to be true, can this really be down to Trump? How long does it take a government to turn around an economy as large as that of the USA?
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