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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #1181  
Old 10-26-2017, 01:10 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
They both cut their victims open down the midline in large, long cuts, laying the abdomen open.
They did not. Period.

The only one whose abdomen was laid open was Mary Kelly.
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 10-26-2017 at 01:13 PM.
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  #1182  
Old 10-26-2017, 01:30 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
They did not. Period.

The only one whose abdomen was laid open was Mary Kelly.
If you are saying that a cut from ribs to pubes does not lay the abdomen open, then I disagree. It IS laid open, albeit not necessarily to the eye.

Chapmans and Jacksons abdomens were of course also laid open by the removal of the abdominal wall in flaps. You may reason that only Kellys abdomen was laid entirely open, since it was said that the whole of the abdominal wall was taken away, and I have no problem with that.

The problem I have is how it can make you go "Different killer! Different killer!" if only 50, 60, 70, 80 or 90 per cent of Chapmans and Jacksons abdomens were "laid open" in this extremely rare manner.

In fact, if you decide that Jackson should not be viable as the Rippers victim on account of that factor, then what happens to Chapman - she did NOT have her abdominal wall removed in toto either.

So...different killer than Kelly then? Or?
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  #1183  
Old 10-26-2017, 01:35 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surströmming
But that is semantics and nothing else. They both cut their victims open down the midline in large, long cuts
Didn't the killer cut up and not down

Last edited by RockySullivan : 10-26-2017 at 01:41 PM.
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  #1184  
Old 10-26-2017, 01:40 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by RockySullivan View Post
Didn't the killer cut up and not down
I´d be happy to discuss that with you if...
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  #1185  
Old 10-26-2017, 01:44 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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I´m off to bed now. I believe there will be posts to answer tomorrow, and I will gladly do so. I hope that they will not involve expression like whacky (or braindead for that matter ). I do not mind tough exchanges, and I tend never to pull any punches myself. But I will make it my business to do so with respect, and I hope that I will be met by the same sentiment.

Goodnight for now!
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  #1186  
Old 10-26-2017, 01:44 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
If you are saying that a cut from ribs to pubes does not lay the abdomen open, then I disagree. It IS laid open, albeit not necessarily to the eye.
The degree to which the abdomens were laid open that is important. The killer almost certainly had more time and privacy with Elizabeth Jackson than he did with Kelly at Miller's Court, but her abdominal wounds sound almost like keyhole surgery in comparison. And what of the other torso victims? Where do we hear about the long, ribs-to-pubis wounds that they endured? Where do we hear about the "large" (i.e. long, narrow) flaps that were cut from their abdomens?

If there was true consistency in the manner in which JTR and the torso killer(s) dissected their victims, we may have grounds to consider that the perpetrators were one and the same person. There is no such consistency, however, in either series.
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  #1187  
Old 10-26-2017, 01:49 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surströmming View Post
I´d be happy to discuss that with you if...
if what I stop calling you braindead? I'm an honest man. And don't expect me to not point out when you say something stupid.
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  #1188  
Old 10-26-2017, 03:13 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Ok fish, for the sake of continuity i won't call you any names anymore. But I'm calling you Surströmming from now on. So no more using name calling as an excuse not to have to explain stuff anymore and back to the topic at arm
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  #1189  
Old 10-26-2017, 04:47 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Debs, why was it said Liz Jackson might have been killed on the embankment? If the killer were to kill outside around the embankment in this case, it would strike me as odd if the rest of the murders were in indoors. If he killed and dismembered outside around the area he found the victim, well that is very different. Jerry suggested the Whitehall torso could have been dismembered inside the vault.
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  #1190  
Old 10-26-2017, 08:18 PM
drstrange169 drstrange169 is offline
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>>... what I have in mind would require a garment that LOOKED like a nightgown, quite simply.<<

Fair enough, though you will have to take into account the fact that none of the people who saw it thought it was a nightgown, so something about it made them all think it was a chemise. Off hand, I'd guess the size of it but, who knows.
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