Most dangerous location?

[Joshua Rogan]

Right c.d., the idea of a lookout really needs some benefit to both parties, typically financial, nothing of the sort is the case in these crimes.

Not only that, but surely a lookout is there to warn the perpetrator of any approaching trouble. I'm not sure what Hutchinson could have done to warn someone inside a room down an alleyway across the street that wouldn't have attracted more attention.
And Pipe-man wasn't a very good lookout either, since he only appeared once the attack on Liz Stride had already been witnessed.

[Joshua Rogan]

OF course what was the more dangerous for Jack.

To kill in an enclosed space where escape am have been problematic, or out in the open where there was a risk of being seen.

Exactly. For me, Dutfields' Yard has both problems. Sure it was dark, but the killer couldn't have seen anyone approaching until they were almost literally on op of him. The sounds of revelry from the club might well have masked any sounds of approach. And there was only one exit.

[GUT]

Exactly. For me, Dutfields' Yard has both problems. Sure it was dark, but the killer couldn't have seen anyone approaching until they were almost literally on op of him. The sounds of revelry from the club might well have masked any sounds of approach. And there was only one exit.

True, but less chance of being seen than in say Bucks Row and not as little room to escape as say Millers Court, but as you say possibly the worst combination of both.

[Joshua Rogan]

McCarthy ok'd the forcing of the door. Despite the fact that its very likely he knew of the method of accessing the latch through the window, it had been the only way to get in for weeks, if Joe and Mary had wanted the door locked when they weren't in the room.

I'm not sure it was very likely McCarthy knew. If I was broke, I'd try and hide this from the landlord for fear he'd add the price of a new lock on to my rent arrears.

Still, it would have been interesting if Mary Ann Cox had mentioned how MJK and Blotchy had opened the door when she saw them enter.

[Robert]

I think in the end we're talking about individual psychology here. I remember about ten years ago there was a debate as to why Schwarz would have gone past his house when fleeing. Surely he would have gone into his house, for safety? But some said that if you're being chased or believe that you're being chased, the last thing you want to do is to lead the pursuer to the place where you're living.

[Robert]

As I said, it was a very long time ago. I remember Chris was arguing that he should have gone into his house, and here's a non-message link :

http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media/book_reviews/non-fiction/castofthousands.israel-schwartz.html

[Robert]

Hi Richard

I thought that having no fear was one of the hallmarks of the psychopath. If taking risks is part-and-parcel of the murders, then I don't see why that would imply that the killer was disorganized (although I tend to think that he was).

[Joshua Rogan]

True, but less chance of being seen than in say Bucks Row and not as little room to escape as say Millers Court, but as you say possibly the worst combination of both.

Bucks Row was quiet and dark (only 1 street lamp at one end), with at least 30 yards to see or hear anyone approach, if Jack was paying attention, and make his escape in the opposite direction (or tap them on the shoulder and bluff it out). Then again, by my count, there were three police beats covering Bucks Row, so not ideal. In the unlikely event that people appeared at both ends of the street simultaneously, there was the possibility of exiting via the railway cutting. I'm not sure whether that was physically possible, though. Although there was a family sleeping in a cottage just yards from the murder, and another across the road, it was unlikely they'd get up to investigate unless there was a heck of a commotion - some people sleeping at Mitre Square didn't even wake until the morning despite 5 hours of police activity, and even cries of "Oh murder" weren't enough to get the denizens of Millers Court to so much as look out the window.

None of the murder sites seem ideal, if the murders were planned. But good enough for a stealthy, confident killer. And they do seem to have been adequate for whatever purpose the victims were there...

[Bridewell]

I went with Dutfields Yard. I can't really see Miller Court as being dangerous in comparison to Dutfields or Hanbury. In either of the other two locations you had to deal with the possibility of multiple numbers of people possibly seeing you at any moment.

Did it matter if he was seen? I would argue that it didn't as long as he made good his escape and wasn't recognised.

[Steadmund Brand]

I went with Mitre Sq... my reason being police could have approached from multiple directions at any time....

Steadmund Brand

[Sam Flynn]

I went with Mitre Sq... my reason being police could have approached from multiple directions at any time.

They had comparatively predictable beats, and given that there were 2 policemen and 3 exits, Jack had rather more options than anywhere else. In many ways, Mitre Square could be seen as the "safest" spot, given its relative quietness, lack of residents, and - perhaps crucially - the fact that it wasn't H Division, or even Metropolitan Police, territory.

[Steadmund Brand]

They had comparatively predictable beats, and given that there were 2 policemen and 3 exits, Jack had rather more options than anywhere else. In many ways, Mitre Square could be seen as the "safest" spot, given its relative quietness, lack of residents, and - perhaps crucially - the fact that it wasn't H Division, or even Metropolitan Police, territory.

I would agree under normal circumstances... just that with the panic/"hysteria" surrounding the crimes just seems to me to be to open an area...again....that is assuming that there were extra police.. plain clothed and also vigilance committee folks wondering about… which may or may not have been the case

Steadmund Brand

[Hatchett]

Hi,

I think the point is that probably the victims led the killer to what they thought was a "safe" spot for a little bit of illicit trade. The murders themselves probably took little more time than the trade would have taken. So I think that the killer could have been pretty confident that all of the sites were reasonably "safe."

Best wishes.

[hanway3]

I would certainly feel that 29 Hanbury Street was the most dangerous, the most likely of the places to be caught.
Even for those of us, not me, who think there was more than one killer; there are great risks at all the sites. How many would take such brazen risks?
But above all, Hanbury Street seems the worst, for location and probable time.

[Rosella]

Dutfield's Yard though, was a virtual cul de sac. If Jack's escape route to Berner street was cut off there was nowhere to go. if the killer was challenged by a male in the yard at 29 Hanbury then there were at least side and back fences to quickly climb over if he had to. If he was stopped in the passage of the house by someone blocking the route to the door then he would have been in trouble, but the tenants on the ground floor at least were older women and youths.