Leslie Van Houten should be released on parole

[Magpie]

Now I get you. Once again, see Judge Krug : "They can't keep using the crime forever and ever."
Do you understand he is talking about law, not about his own feelings ?

And once again the Court of Appeal said that Krug was wrong.

[DVV]

For no good reasons, as Judge Krug already told us...30 years ago.

A very sad prophecy, if you want my opinion.

Leslie Van Houten is now a better person than I would ever be.

I haven't paid the price to be that good, thank God.

Amitiés,
David

[Magpie]

Just false, unless you can prove what I've quoted in post#1 is wrong.
And you can't

That's a completely specious argument. Just because she said what you quoted doesn't mean she can't have said what I quoted. Difference is that the quotes I provided undermine every self-serving statement you provided.

That's what she said, and said again.

And then she says:

I didn't kill Leno
Watson killed Rosemary.
Pat and Tex are more guilty than I was
Rosemary was dead when I stabbed her
I stabbed her because I was told to.

This is not accepting equal responsibility. It is not honest. It does not show remorse for anything except getting caught and convicted.

Why you got me wrong is beyond me.
She is serving a sentence pronounced after her third trial, and not a commuted sentence.
That's all I'm saying and that's the simple and official truth.

But not the complete truth. The court did not have the option of sentencing her to death or to life without parole, and that is what is reflect in her sentence, not some sort of difference between her guilt and say, Manson's.

It was the gas chamber and Manson deserved it.
Not Leslie.

So Charlie, who never actually killed anyone, deserves the chair but the women who wielded the knives don't?


[/quote]
Now I get you. You would like her to be nasty and cruel, unfortunately she's sensitive and true.
[/QUOTE]

And the Krays loved their mum.

[Magpie]

DVV: Since Leslie Van Houten is so honest

What do you feel about her 2002 claims that Bobby Beausoleil was not under Manson's control, but on the contrary it was Charlie who sought Bobby's approval.

[DVV]

Magpie, you're unfair.

She takes full responsability, not only for the murders, but for having been a Manson follower, which means she takes responsability for murders during which she was even not present.

What more can she say ?

Now you are keep saying : "She said she was told to stab Mrs LaBianca! That means she escape responsability!"

Are you serious ?
Yes, she has been told to "do something" by Tex Watson. That's a fact.
And she obeyed.
WILLINGLY, and even HAPPILY, as SHE HAS ADMITTED MANY TIMES, EVEN COMPARING HERSELF TO A WOLD BEAST.

She has even made clear that it took her about 3 years to get rid of the Family influence.

You'll have a hard time to fight the truth.
You may hate this woman, it's up to you, but you can't make her badder than she is.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

What do you feel about her 2002 claims that Bobby Beausoleil was not under Manson's control, but on the contrary it was Charlie who sought Bobby's approval.

That's a pure nonsense, Bobby phoned to Manson like a little child when he was at Hinman's residence.
Bobby used to orally service Charlie...
Bobby never had followers who thought he was...the Soul.

[Magpie]

That's a pure nonsense, Bobby phoned to Manson like a little child when he was at Hinman's residence.
Bobby used to orally service Charlie...
Bobby never had followers who thought he was...the Soul.

So in this particular case, Leslie's word can't be trusted?

[Magpie]

For no good reasons, as Judge Krug already told us...30 years ago.

A very sad prophecy, if you want my opinion.

Leslie Van Houten is now a better person than I would ever be.

I haven't paid the price to be that good, thank God.

Amitiés,
David

Now you're moving the goalposts.

A moment ago you're saying that Judge Krug's word was a legal ruling. Then when I point out that that ruling was legally overruled, now you're arguing that Krug was right, the Appeals Court was wrong, and Krug's the one we should listen to.

It doesn't work that way--The Appeal's Court word is--literally--law.

[DVV]

So Charlie, who never actually killed anyone, deserves the chair but the women who wielded the knives don't?

That's awful and insulting for the victims.

That means : if I pay somebody or use my influence to have you shot, I'm not your murderer ?!

And what about Shorty ?
What about tiyng the LaBiancas and send Tex and the girls to kill them ?

And do you seriously believe that 10050 Cielo Drive was Tex choice ?

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

Now you're moving the goalposts.

A moment ago you're saying that Judge Krug's word was a legal ruling. Then when I point out that that ruling was legally overruled, now you're arguing that Krug was right, the Appeals Court was wrong, and Krug's the one we should listen to.

It doesn't work that way--The Appeal's Court word is--literally--law.

What ??

I just said the parole was denied without good reasons, and that's the simple truth.
What was right in Krug's mouth in 1980 was hundred times right in 2007.

[Magpie]

Magpie, you're unfair.


Are you serious ?
Yes, she has been told to "do something" by Tex Watson. That's a fact.
And she obeyed.
WILLINGLY, and even HAPPILY, as SHE HAS ADMITTED MANY TIMES, EVEN COMPARING HERSELF TO A WOLD BEAST.

Except when she's up for parole, when she emphasizes that she didn't stab Labianca until a) Watson ordered her to, and b) Labianca was already dead. Golly gee, she wasn't killing a person, she was merely stabbing some meat. The fact that 40 years on she still can't understand why people don't see much of difference between the two is reason enough to deny parole.

You're also omitting why she claimed that Watson even had to tell her to stab Labianca--because she was reluctant, that she "froze", or that she was somehow trying to avoid stabbing her.

[DVV]

I maintain that Leslie is a victim of Manson's fame and lobbying.

Now tell me : how come the sister of Sharon Tate attended the parole hearings?

The relatives of the LaBiancas aren't glamour enough ?

Amitiés,
David

[Magpie]

What ??

I just said the parole was denied without good reasons, and that's the simple truth.
What was right in Krug's mouth in 1980 was hundred times right in 2007.

These are your very words:

Once again, see Judge Krug : "They can't keep using the crime forever and ever."
Do you understand he is talking about law, not about his own feelings ?

The Appeals court said that the law disagrees with Krug. It 100% fails to agree with Krug. Krug was wrong. Period.

[Magpie]

I maintain that Leslie is a victim of Manson's fame and lobbying.

Okay, at least we have one point of agreement.

Now tell me : how come the sister of Sharon Tate attended the parole hearings?

Because she is a relentless attention whore. What's your point?

The relatives of the LaBiancas aren't glamour enough ?

Obviously not glamorous enough to garner the media coverage when for instance they sent this letter to Leslie Van Houten's parole board:

:To Board Of Prison Terms
Manson and his minions thrust our family name into public focus when they murdered Sharon Tate and her house guest one night, then they killed my former husband and his wife in a most brutal manner the next night. Their shocking criminal actions became known as the TATE-LABIANCA MURDERS. We lost our privacy and our obscurity.
My family never became vocal, we did not become activist, we relied on the justice system to seek and find the justice that was due us. We have never been asked by the District Attorney’s Office to participate in opposing the release of any of the killers. After all, they all received the death penalty, and that was all our family could expect.

But we can no longer remain silent. Let me preface my remarks by this statement:

We do not desire to become activist. We do not desire to be bombarded by the media and have our privacy destroyed. Yet, we must make a statement about the parole hearing for convicted murderer , Leslie Van Houten.

She entered the home of Leno, father of my children, that August 10th, 1969. She participated in the deaths in that home. I know, she says she only stabbed Rosemary after she was already dead from the relentless stabbing of Tex Watson. I know she denies having stabbed Leno. I even understand she has been a model prisoner for all these years. It doesn’t matter!

Leslie Van Houten has been fed, given medical care, clothed and housed for nearly thirty years. I understand she even completed a college degree and a Masters degree. My children had no such gifts. They, like other law-abiding citizens growing up, have had to face the realities of life without the help of their father. It has not been easy for them. I know Ms. Van Houten has a web site with Susan Atkins. I know she has a lot of friends who work for her freedom. That is unfortunate.

Leslie Van Houten chose her own path. She chose to follow the instructions of Charles Manson. She chose drug crazed killers as her family and she became one of them. But what about my family? When do we get our parole? When does Leno get his parole?

Sympathy for these killers, and especially this one is misplaced. Sympathy, understanding, and compassion should be given to the victims of murder and not the killers. In all these years, not one of those killers have expressed remorse to our family, -- not even Leslie Van Houten who says she did the least in the murders. If she is really ready for parole then amends to the family should have already been done.

When Leslie’s father appeared on Larry King Live, my family was denied speaking on air by the producers to answer Mr. Van Houten’s accusations that the LaBianca’s didn’t care!! Not one of us was allowed on the show.

Make no mistake about it, the entire LaBianca family has suffered untold deprivation, frustration, anxiety and financial ruin because of these murders. Leno’s mother died of a broken heart just six years after her son’s murder, losing the business to merciless creditors – the family business that Leno was managing and she and Leno’s father had founded in the late 1920’s.

We emphatically oppose the release of any of the Manson menage. When the death penalty was repealed after their convictions, their sentences were converted to Life with possibility of parole. Even the California State Legislature found that unacceptable! They voted to make the entire Manson family an exception! The California voters also took action so we now have "Life without parole" as it should be!

It’s a sacrilege to Leno’s memory that the family has to be confronted with parole hearings for these individuals every few years. We are glad for her maturity and her model prisoner status, but that does not equate to freedom.

We also want to say that Suzanne LaBerge, daughter of Rosemary, the murdered wife of Leno at the time, does not represent the LaBianca family. She certainly did not represent us at that May 4, 1990 parole hearing for Tex Watson, when she made that pathetic appeal for his release because she "forgave" him.

As Ms. Van Houten continues her incarceration, let her continue to remember that what she did that fateful night was forever. The Manson family mark on this society is deep. As deep as the stab wounds to their helpless victims.

Alice LaBianca, author of NO MORE TOMORROWS through her friend, Bill Nelson, author of MANSON BEHIND THE SCENES, and a leading Manson family expert. www.mansonmurders.com

It was the encouragement from Nelson, that our family is speaking out. Please do not believe our silence has been uncaring.

Alice LaBianca

[DVV]

Except when she's up for parole, when she emphasizes that she didn't stab Labianca until a) Watson ordered her to, and b) Labianca was already dead. Golly gee, she wasn't killing a person, she was merely stabbing some meat. The fact that 40 years on she still can't understand why people don't see much of difference between the two is reason enough to deny parole.

But Magpie, that's just true.
Watson ordered her, she stabbed...when Mrs LaBianca was already dead, or dying. Sadly, that was what happened.

But Leslie, once again, takes full responsability for the murders: that of Rosemary, and that of Leno.

And she has logically been sentenced for these two murders.
She is not denying anything, she's providing details, as much as she can.
When at Spahn Ranch, she told Kasabian that she had stabbed someone who was already dead.

You're also omitting why she claimed that Watson even had to tell her to stab Labianca--because she was reluctant, that she "froze", or that she was somehow trying to avoid stabbing her.

Stop being dishonest.
Who said so ?
I don't know why Mrs LaBianca has been stabbed by Patricia first, then Tex, lastly Leslie.
I don't know, have never known, and never said I knew.
But that's how it went, as far as the investigation tells us.

Amitiés,
David