Days of the week murders occured?

[perrymason]

Hi Sam,

I see this question as having at least 2 possible answers, 1 is that he killed when he found the right victim/location and time, it just happened to be on weekends and holidays. The second is that he killed when he was free to do so.

I dont see evidence that either suggestion is better than the other...both are possible....but only one can potentially also address the fact that no murders occur from the 9th to the 30th or 31st each month also. There are weekend and holiday kills, and then the same break periods.....almost 3 weeks of inactivity, in between.

In one scenario....he is possibly a killer every night, out looking for a victim....in the other, he is a man releasing pent up violent desires only when he can.

Best regards Sam, as always.

[Sam Flynn]

In one scenario....he is possibly a killer every night, out looking for a victim....in the other, he is a man releasing pent up violent desires only when he can.

Those scenarios aren't mutually exclusive, Mike. As I suggested, we should guard against assuming that those times when he succeeded in killing were the only nights he went out looking for a victim.

BTW, I'm not suggesting he went out every night - only that he might have gone out on other days of the week and failed to find an opportunity to kill. I'm pretty certain that he wouldn't have limited his expeditions to only the "Canonical" days, and just happened to strike it lucky every time.

[perrymason]

Those scenarios aren't mutually exclusive, Mike. As I suggested, we should guard against assuming that those times when he succeeded in killing were the only nights he went out looking for a victim.

BTW, I'm not suggesting he went out every night - only that he might have gone out on other days of the week and failed to find an opportunity to kill. I'm pretty certain that he wouldn't have limited his expeditions to only the "Canonical" days, and just happened to strike it lucky every time.

The part in bold is because I immediately thought...."one can make his own luck" in response. His "fortunes" were perhaps enhanced by some pre-examination of pending acts and the development of some strategies.

For example....the weekends and holidays might just be when he would have the optimum chances of finding his target prey in the right environment...he might have killed Kate in an open square, but it did have three exits,...setting aside a work schedule, he may have made decisions like the ones I mentioned.

Whether a conscious decision, a decision out of his hands, or by chance or fate, we do have a relatively defined period of each week and month when he was active... that we know about.

If the criteria for him is a prostitute working alone near dark alleys though, I would think that within days of each murder, the area recovered and the street women went back to work....so there would have been ample opportunities for him to find similar prey in similar circumstances at anytime during the week or month. Which then makes only specific day kills, more surprising.

The longest time the streets were impacted by the murders was after the Double Event I believe...some wrote it was like a ghost town out there for days, maybe a week after that event. But they all came back out of the woodwork soon enough....they had to earn.

I think he would have had ample opportunities every day, every night and all month long. Why then he only kills within a 10 day period, and only the weekends or holidays within that period, is a good question.

Cheers Mr Flynn......wasnt a Sam Flynn a "mickie" at one time?

[Sam Flynn]

I'm not denying that there may have been certain times when it was more conducive for him to murder, Mike. I'm just saying that there's not enough of a sample for us to make a definitive statement on the matter.

For example, consider this...

Sticking purely to the "C5", Jack succeeded in killing on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. That's 3 days out of a possible 7 in any one week or, as near as dammit, 50:50. Doesn't inspire much confidence, at face value.

I think he would have had ample opportunities every day, every night and all month long.

The facts don't bear that out. Why did he have to wait until almost daybreak on 8th September, before he succeeded in killing a victim? Why - if this chap was so ruthlessly efficient - weren't there more murders, on other weekends if necessary?

Whilst some streetwalkers may have stayed inside, that was by no means universally the case and - don't forget - at least three of the C5 were evictees on the nights they were killed. It surely can't be true that women dossers were only evicted on Fridays to Sundays, and only on those particular weekends?

[perrymason]

Hi Sam,

Im not so sure that there were 3 "evictees", really there were 4 women of the 5 that had no room to call their own at anytime. How many women were like that on the streets on any given night? Dozens? More?

I think the early morning kill can easily reflect a killer who feels he must kill on that night/morning...perhaps because he will be unable to kill again until the months end.

Were there potential prey on the streets every night from late August until early November? The answer has to be yes. Then why only weekends, holidays, and never, ever mid-month?

Folied attempts, nights he changes his mind, cant find the right situation, or runs out of darkness are all speculative suggestions, as we have no evidence that Jack was thought or suspected of being behind any non lethal attacks on a woman that Fall. We have no "failed" attempts thought to be by him.

In fact, there is no reason to claim that the killer was even in town from the 9th of each month until the 30th or 31st, as we have no firm evidence he was a local, or that he must have stayed in the area between kill spurts.

So... why would we assume he was even available to kill on nights he did not?

All the best.

[Sam Flynn]

Im not so sure that there were 3 "evictees", really there were 4 women of the 5 that had no room to call their own at anytime.

In the land of the dosser, that's as good as being evicted, Mike

How many women were like that on the streets on any given night? Dozens? More?

Indeed - and that's my point. I'm sure there would have been more waifs and strays out on the streets in the hours before Polly Nichols and Annie Chapman died. Yet Jack seems to have hung on until quite late in the morning before "scoring", and in Chapman's case, he had to wait almost till dawn. If neither Nichols nor (especially) Chapman had happened to cross his path when they did, then he'd arguably have had a "nil return" on both nights, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Consider the "C5" with Tabram thrown in (just in case), and Nichols and Chapman removed:

Monday: _________
Tuesday: Martha Tabram
Wednesday: _________
Thursday: _________
Friday: Mary Kelly
Saturday: ________
Sunday: Liz Stride, Catherine Eddowes

... not much to work with there, really. That's part of the problem with such small samples as these: on the one hand, it's easy to make a pattern fit (especially in the absence of a baseline); on the other hand, you just need to take one or two data points away and the entire "pattern" collapses.

[perrymason]

Thats a good illustration for your point Sam, and it demonstrates very vividly that to see anything clearly in these messes, one has to have a stable platform to work from.

Change a few Ripper assignations, maybe add a few non-Ripper kills instead, and the data suddenly looks brand new. Its like Ive been saying here for three years now.....until we know who he killed specifically, we cant know anything about him from the evidence that exists. Or more to the point....a Canonical Group was never warranted by the evidence alone.

If these cases were mine to control the investigations of, Elizabeth Stride would be "de-Canoned" today based only on what is already known, Mary would be set aside but not dismissed, Polly and Annie would be together, with Kate set off to the side with Mary. Thats why I personally get my neck out of joint most often on Liz's and Marys threads...to me, they are both improbable extensions of the man that killed Polly and Annie. The man that killed those two does'nt start what he can't finish, no matter where or when he takes them.... and he is more likely to covet what the killer in room 13 just leaves behind.

Its all in who you see as Jack the Rippers likely victims, was this a mad serial killer who kills in various forms from Martha Tabram thru Mary Kelly? Or were some of the Canonical deaths not his work, leaving open a myriad of possibilities as to what actually happened there?

Ive been in the second camp since I knew the victims names well, to me anyway, there is not enough evidence to justify creating a 5 person Canonical Group. But there is to suggest a multiple murder or 2.

All the best amigo.