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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Hutchinson, George

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  #1641  
Old 09-20-2018, 05:07 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Sara Lewis and Thomas Bowyer

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
sarah lewis only corroborates his stalking behavior.
Bowyer corroborates nothing
no one corroborates Mary out at that time or Aman.
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #1642  
Old 09-20-2018, 05:09 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varqm View Post
Agreed.As posted before Hutch was the most significant witness.Hutch could identify the possible "suspect",unlike Lawende,Long, and his sighting
was 15 minutes long compared to 10-30 sec for Lawende,Long,Schwartz.If Hutch was the most significant witness and subsequent inquiries proved
to be positive why then did not the police used him as a witness in the Sadler case and the seaside home identification? Lawende used in the Sadler case instead did not make sense since he "doubt he could identify the man again".Why then it's not clear in police documents/memoirs throughout the years that Astrakhan man was the killer they were looking for as seen by the most significant witness.
Speaking for myself,to me it's clear there was a resounding "no" to Hutch's testimony.If they just cast him aside even though he was the most significant witness, it does/didn't not make sense.

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bingo
hutch was (or should have been)the most significant witness-BY FAR!

if his story was true-then almost certainly Aman would have been suspect number one and hutch witness number one. no question.
yet he drops like a stone, never to be heard of again.
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #1643  
Old 09-20-2018, 05:59 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Like Abby, I’m a little confused as to which other witness(es) you believe confirmed Hutchinson’s story. Do you mean Sarah Lewis’s sighting of the man at around 2.30? I certainly agree that this “corroborates” Hutchinson’s likely presence at that particular time
However, Hutchinson does't mention her. If he'd wanted to reinforce his credibility - as if to say, "I must have been the man seen by Lewis, because I saw her enter the Court" - surely he'd have gone out of his way to do so, yet he didn't mention seeing her at all. (Before Jon chips in, I really don't buy the idea that Hutchinson or Badham wouldn't have been interested in reporting having seen a female.)
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  #1644  
Old 09-20-2018, 06:16 AM
Paddy Paddy is offline
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I was reading a report from Swanson regarding informants recently and wondered could Hutch or whoever identified Jack (according to Anderson) have been an informer? Swanson stated that informers could not be called as witnesses because the detectives pay them for information.
Pat.....
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  #1645  
Old 09-20-2018, 06:25 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
sarah lewis only corroborates his stalking behavior.

You really will have to keep up with posts on here, this all has been posted before but for your benefit I will post again and allow for your memory lapse due to old age

Stalking or not, it potentially puts him where he says he was at the time he said he was there.

Bowyer corroborates nothing
If thats what you think. Try this for size!

The Echo, 14th November, reported him going “out at different times up Millers Court on the Thursday night for the purposes of getting water from a tap there—the only available supply. Indeed, Bowyer visited that spot as late—or, rather, as early—as three o'clock on the morning of the murder. This early visit to the water tap is by no means an infrequent (sic) thing, as Mr. McCarthy’s shop, which supplies the wants of a very poor and wretched locality, whose denizens are out at all “hours, late and early, does not at times close until three o’clock in the morning, while occasionally it is open all night. Early on Friday morning Bowyer saw a man whose description tallies with that of the supposed murderer. Bowyer has, he says, described this man to Inspector Abberline and Inspector Reid.”

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  #1646  
Old 09-20-2018, 06:39 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
If thats what you think. Try this for size!

The Echo, 14th November, reported him going “out at different times up Millers Court on the Thursday night for the purposes of getting water from a tap there—the only available supply. Indeed, Bowyer visited that spot as late—or, rather, as early—as three o'clock on the morning of the murder. This early visit to the water tap is by no means an infrequent (sic) thing, as Mr. McCarthy’s shop, which supplies the wants of a very poor and wretched locality, whose denizens are out at all “hours, late and early, does not at times close until three o’clock in the morning, while occasionally it is open all night. Early on Friday morning Bowyer saw a man whose description tallies with that of the supposed murderer. Bowyer has, he says, described this man to Inspector Abberline and Inspector Reid.”

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
why dosnt he mention it in his inquest statement?
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #1647  
Old 09-20-2018, 06:43 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
However, Hutchinson does't mention her. If he'd wanted to reinforce his credibility - as if to say, "I must have been the man seen by Lewis, because I saw her enter the Court" - surely he'd have gone out of his way to do so, yet he didn't mention seeing her at all. (Before Jon chips in, I really don't buy the idea that Hutchinson or Badham wouldn't have been interested in reporting having seen a female.)
Hi Sam
which is odd. so either he:

1. wasnt there-which I doubt-she cooroborates he was there.
2. missedher/ forgot to mention: which seems strange, seeming as he had such a great memory
3. intentionally left her out-If he came forward because he thought she saw him there, and he was making up the story about Aman, I could see why he left her out. I go with this.
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline

Last edited by Abby Normal : 09-20-2018 at 06:49 AM.
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  #1648  
Old 09-20-2018, 06:54 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
why dosnt he mention it in his inquest statement?
I have no idea.

However, I would suggest that his inquest testimony was only focused on him finding the body.He was second behind Barnett to give evidence. At that time nothing else was before the jury, and he was not asked any questions other than those related to finding the body.

And not forgetting at the time of the inquest Hutchinson had not gone to the police

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  #1649  
Old 09-20-2018, 07:03 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
I have no idea.

However, I would suggest that his inquest testimony was only focused on him finding the body.He was second behind Barnett to give evidence. At that time nothing else was before the jury, and he was not asked any questions other than those related to finding the body.

And not forgetting at the time of the inquest Hutchinson had not gone to the police

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Thanks trevor

I remember Debs a few years back finding an article in a paper (ibeleive different from the one you mentioned) that has a direct quote from Bowyer saying he was in the court around 3ish and NOT seeing anyone. and saying something to the effect that the killer was maybe in her room at the time and regretting he could have caught him.

do you remember?


so, that story dosnt corroborate Hutchs Aman, and to my mind cast a bit of suspicion on Bowyer.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #1650  
Old 09-20-2018, 07:17 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Thanks trevor

I remember Debs a few years back finding an article in a paper (ibeleive different from the one you mentioned) that has a direct quote from Bowyer saying he was in the court around 3ish and NOT seeing anyone. and saying something to the effect that the killer was maybe in her room at the time and regretting he could have caught him.

do you remember?


so, that story dosnt corroborate Hutchs Aman, and to my mind cast a bit of suspicion on Bowyer.
I dont remember the previous article, But if true, this Echo report I do believe does corroborate in away Hutchinson's statement.

but I will reiterate two other important issues, when assesing and evaluating witness testimony

1.It has been proven that all throughout these murders there is conflicting statements from witnesses involved in all the murders, that makes them unsafe to totally rely on them. Many of these conflcits were identified at the inquests but for some reason they were not expanded upon or clarified.

2. The reliability of newspaper reports, and to that we get back to primary and secondary sources, and what is and what isnt a primary and secondary source. It is not right for anyone to readily accept what a newspaper publishes in 1888, unless its source can be proven.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
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