Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

torso maps

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Harry D View Post
    Ah, see now you're not being objective, Sam.
    I made an objective and demonstrably factual statement about the pattern of the crimes. A one-off torso in Pinchin Street does not conform to the pattern of the torso murders, the vast majority of which took place well outside the East End, so it isn't MUCH of an overlap, is it?
    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by RockySullivan View Post
      Maybe he did, I don't know, maybe some ripper victims were killed indoors and brought outside or maybe the some of the more ideal conditions provided by Kelly's living situation weren't available in other victims? "Planned" for his victim having a room? Do you mean aware of the fact the victim had a room before the murder?
      That’s what I mean. If you suggest, correct me if I’m wrong, that part of the ripper’s plan was that his victim (Kelly) had her own room which would have afforded him the privacy that he wouldn’t have had if he’d killed her in the streets like the other victims, then either he would have known that beforehand so I’d ask how. Or, it was just good fortune, in which case it wasn’t a plan but just someone take advantage of a fortuitous circumstance. Another question would be, if Kelly hadn’t have had a room would the ripper have decided not to kill her. Maybe it could be said that after The Double Event he wanted to reduce his risk of being caught? But I’d suggest that he might have struggled to find prostitutes with their own rooms?
      Regards

      Sir Herlock Sholmes.

      “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
        I made an objective and demonstrably factual statement about the pattern of the crimes. A one-off torso in Pinchin Street does not conform to the pattern of the torso murders, the vast majority of which took place well outside the East End, so it isn't MUCH of an overlap, is it?
        Who's talking about the pattern of the crimes? I simply made a factual statement that the two series of murders overlapped in time and place. Does that mean they were carried out by the same hand? Not at all, but it is a startling coincidence. It seems you wish to diminish the fact because you are of the firm opinion that these murders were not connected. That's not objective, my friend.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
          Not just like Chapman and Kelly. The number and nature of those infernal "flaps" were different in each case.
          Flaps is good enough for me. Anyone can drill down enough on any detail untill they find a difference.
          "Is all that we see or seem
          but a dream within a dream?"

          -Edgar Allan Poe


          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

          -Frederick G. Abberline

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
            Flaps is good enough for me.
            "Flaps" is not a technical term, and is about as specific - and useful - as "pieces". With respect to the Jackson torso, and only that case among the torso victims, they were described as "slips" (or strips) of flesh, and they were only two in number, as opposed to three in the Chapman and Kelly murders. Furthermore, the flaps/pieces cut from Kelly's abdomen were huge, and significantly more extensive than either Chapman or Jackson.

            So "flaps" is not good enough at all. It's far too non-specific a term.
            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Harry D View Post
              Who's talking about the pattern of the crimes? I simply made a factual statement that the two series of murders overlapped in time and place. Does that mean they were carried out by the same hand? Not at all, but it is a startling coincidence. It seems you wish to diminish the fact because you are of the firm opinion that these murders were not connected. That's not objective, my friend.
              I don't want to diminish any facts, only to emphasise that we need to be very specific if we are to draw any inference from the data. Simply observing that ONE torso was deposited in Pinchin Street whilst the majority were dumped on the other side of London doesn't constitute much of a geographical overlap. Likewise the occurrence of a "spike" of open-air evisceration murders in the middle of a long-running series of quite different murders isn't much of a temporal overlap either.

              If my opinion is firm in respect of the non-connectedness of the murders, it's because I objectively look at the specifics and avoid over-generalisation.
              Kind regards, Sam Flynn

              "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                I don't want to diminish any facts, only to emphasise that we need to be very specific if we are to draw any inference from the data. Simply observing that ONE torso was deposited in Pinchin Street whilst the majority were dumped on the other side of London doesn't constitute much of a geographical overlap. Likewise the occurrence of a "spike" of open-air evisceration murders in the middle of a long-running series of quite different murders isn't much of a temporal overlap either.

                If my opinion is firm in respect of the non-connectedness of the murders, it's because I objectively look at the specifics and avoid over-generalisation.
                'Much' is a subjective term, Sam. The murders DID overlap. People can read what they like into that, but it remains a fact.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Harry D View Post
                  'Much' is a subjective term, Sam. The murders DID overlap. People can read what they like into that, but it remains a fact.
                  What about all the other murders that took place all over London from the start to the end of the torso series? We can say that there was an overlap, but we can also say, quite legitimately and objectively, that it wasn't MUCH of an overlap.
                  Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                  "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                    "Flaps" is not a technical term, and is about as specific - and useful - as "pieces". With respect to the Jackson torso, and only that case among the torso victims, they were described as "slips" (or strips) of flesh, and they were only two in number, as opposed to three in the Chapman and Kelly murders. Furthermore, the flaps/pieces cut from Kelly's abdomen were huge, and significantly more extensive than either Chapman or Jackson.

                    So "flaps" is not good enough at all. It's far too non-specific a term.
                    hi Sam
                    maybe not for you-but good enough for me and others too.

                    speaking of jackson. I would think the first most reasonable way her killer would have approached removing the baby would be to just cut around the bump in a large circle-yet we have flaps yet again.

                    and Ill say it again because I know how much you love the word---FLAPS! ; )
                    "Is all that we see or seem
                    but a dream within a dream?"

                    -Edgar Allan Poe


                    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                    -Frederick G. Abberline

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                      "Flaps" is not a technical term, and is about as specific - and useful - as "pieces". With respect to the Jackson torso, and only that case among the torso victims, they were described as "slips" (or strips) of flesh, and they were only two in number, as opposed to three in the Chapman and Kelly murders. Furthermore, the flaps/pieces cut from Kelly's abdomen were huge, and significantly more extensive than either Chapman or Jackson.

                      So "flaps" is not good enough at all. It's far too non-specific a term.
                      ‘Flaps’ is nowhere near good enough Gareth but they’ve become hooks to hang a case on. Can anyone tell us the difference between a ‘flap’ or a ‘strip’ or a ‘slip?’ Can anyone say that they know what a ‘flap’ looks like? Or does the criteria for a ‘flap’ change in terms of size? Say 3 inches long is a ‘flap’ but over 3 inches is a ‘strip.’ It appears to mean a piece of loose flesh, still attached to the body, caused by a weapon of some kind.

                      Far too vague to make such a fuss about in my opinion. It smacks of desperation.
                      Regards

                      Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                      “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                        ‘Flaps’ is nowhere near good enough Gareth but they’ve become hooks to hang a case on. Can anyone tell us the difference between a ‘flap’ or a ‘strip’ or a ‘slip?’ Can anyone say that they know what a ‘flap’ looks like? Or does the criteria for a ‘flap’ change in terms of size? Say 3 inches long is a ‘flap’ but over 3 inches is a ‘strip.’ It appears to mean a piece of loose flesh, still attached to the body, caused by a weapon of some kind.

                        Far too vague to make such a fuss about in my opinion. It smacks of desperation.
                        FLAPS!!!!!

                        hehehehe
                        "Is all that we see or seem
                        but a dream within a dream?"

                        -Edgar Allan Poe


                        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                        -Frederick G. Abberline

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                          "Flaps" is not a technical term, and is about as specific - and useful - as "pieces". With respect to the Jackson torso, and only that case among the torso victims, they were described as "slips" (or strips) of flesh, and they were only two in number, as opposed to three in the Chapman and Kelly murders. Furthermore, the flaps/pieces cut from Kelly's abdomen were huge, and significantly more extensive than either Chapman or Jackson.

                          So "flaps" is not good enough at all. It's far too non-specific a term.
                          Dr. Hibberts opening statement in “A System of Legal Medicine” regarding The Jackson case is:

                          The parts found were 1) two large flaps of skin.....

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                            That’s what I mean. If you suggest, correct me if I’m wrong, that part of the ripper’s plan was that his victim (Kelly) had her own room which would have afforded him the privacy that he wouldn’t have had if he’d killed her in the streets like the other victims, then either he would have known that beforehand so I’d ask how. Or, it was just good fortune, in which case it wasn’t a plan but just someone take advantage of a fortuitous circumstance. Another question would be, if Kelly hadn’t have had a room would the ripper have decided not to kill her. Maybe it could be said that after The Double Event he wanted to reduce his risk of being caught? But I’d suggest that he might have struggled to find prostitutes with their own rooms?
                            serial killers sometimes plan ahead

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                              ‘Flaps’ is nowhere near good enough Gareth but they’ve become hooks to hang a case on. Can anyone tell us the difference between a ‘flap’ or a ‘strip’ or a ‘slip?’ Can anyone say that they know what a ‘flap’ looks like? Or does the criteria for a ‘flap’ change in terms of size? Say 3 inches long is a ‘flap’ but over 3 inches is a ‘strip.’ It appears to mean a piece of loose flesh, still attached to the body, caused by a weapon of some kind.

                              Far too vague to make such a fuss about in my opinion. It smacks of desperation.
                              this post reeks of desperation

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                                What about all the other murders that took place all over London from the start to the end of the torso series? We can say that there was an overlap, but we can also say, quite legitimately and objectively, that it wasn't MUCH of an overlap.
                                Sam are you volunteering to post another example of any other victims who had their reproductive organs cut out in 1888 since its not a unique trait at all? put up or shut up

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X