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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Deeming, Frederick

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  #11  
Old 01-29-2015, 06:02 PM
Chris Chris is offline
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What I hace a little trouble with is reconciling "I still feel the likeliest explanation is simply that Farson's notes referred to "Deeming" and that he misread them as "Drewery"." with "And I think he remained convinced that Knowles's letter had referred to Druitt.".

But perhaps I am misunderstanding you.
I just think he convinced himself that the letter had referred to Druitt, but in reality it had referred to Deeming, and he just couldn't read his own handwriting.
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  #12  
Old 01-29-2015, 06:20 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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I just think he convinced himself that the letter had referred to Druitt, but in reality it had referred to Deeming, and he just couldn't read his own handwriting.

G'day Chris

Thanks for clarrifying that.


Mmmmm not being able to read your own handwriting he must be related to me.
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  #13  
Old 02-10-2015, 12:37 PM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
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G'day Chris

Thanks for clarrifying that.


Mmmmm not being able to read your own handwriting he must be related to me.
Bit of a side issue GUT but you might be amused to think about it.

In his last series of Sherlock Holmes short stories, "The Casebook of Sherlock Holmes", Sir Arthur Conan Doyle included "The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone". It's about the stealing of a crown jewel by one "Count Negretto Sylvius".

Most critics of Doyle agree that "The Mazarin Stone" is not a good Holmes story, but it is interesting. Instead of the 57 told by Watson, or the 2 told by Holmes, it is the only one written in third person - we don't know who is telling it. Watson only pops at the start, and it repeats (in it's plot) a variation on what was used in a better short story from the collection "The Return of Sherlock Holmes" called "The Adventure of the Empty House". The variation deals with a bust in the "Empty House" and here with a wax statue of Holmes.

The reason for the similarity is that Doyle had written, and produced, a one act Holmes play, "The Crown Diamond" in 1921. It had a similar plot to "The Mazarin Stone" but the villain's name was different. It was "Colonel Sebastian Moran", who is the villain in "The Adventure of the Empty House".

Colonel Moran is the right hand man of Professor Moriarty, and in "The Empty House" he tries to kill Holmes with an air rifle (concealed in his walking stick) from across the street from 221 B Baker Street (where Holmes resides). But he's caught after he fires at what he thinks is Holmes' head, but is actually a bust being moved carefully to look like a human's shadow.

When Moran is arrested, Holmes explains to Insp. Lestrade that Moran is the murderer of a young socialite named "the Honorable Ronald Adair", who was killed in an apparently impregnable room with a similar bullet to the air rifle Moran used here. Adair's father, Watson tells us in "the Empty House" is the Earl of Maynooth, a former governor to one of the Australian colonies.

In 'The Mazarin Stone", Sylvius is taunted at one point for threatening Holmes, and is reminded that "Col. Sebastian Moran" has been known to say the same thing from time to time. But Holmes mentions that his own type of theatricality has been noted by opponents, "What the stage lost the law gained," Old Baron Dowson told me [Holmes says] the night before he was hanged!"

Given the odd, convoluted way Conan Doyle's mind absorbed information and redirected or mixed it in his stories, I have often wondered that since Sylvius and Moran were two villains playing the same role in two pieces of fiction about a jewel robbery, and since Moran (in his first appearance in a story) murdered the son of a former governor of an Australian (pre-1900) colony, the reference in the "Mazarin Stone" to old Baron Dowson was somehow suggested by vague memories of that "Baron Swanson" alias used by Deeming in the early 1890s ("The Adventure of the Empty House" is dated in April 1894, two years after Deeming's execution). To compound such a possibility, Deeming was executed at the gaol on Swanson Street in Melbourne.

Hope this was amusing to follow. Don't know how real this all is, but it is amusing.

Jeff
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  #14  
Old 02-10-2015, 12:55 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Rhanks for that Jeff.

Just one small correction Old Melbourne Gaol where both Deeming and Ned Kelly handed was in Russell Street not Swanston street. There were 133 hangings there in it's time in operation.

He lived in Swanston Street at one stage.

But an interesting thought all the same, and Doyle did appear to draw inspiration from things in real life, as I think do most authors.
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Last edited by GUT : 02-10-2015 at 01:02 PM.
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  #15  
Old 02-10-2015, 01:03 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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As a slight aside, there have been investigations into a skull with some claiming it was Deeming's some Kelly's, boy the death masks are similar.
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  #16  
Old 02-10-2015, 02:55 PM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
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As a slight aside, there have been investigations into a skull with some claiming it was Deeming's some Kelly's, boy the death masks are similar.
Judging from Ned's photos, their faces fortunately weren't similar. Despite his bloodstained record I have some admiration for Ned with his suit of armor at that last battle. I have absolutely no admiration for Deeming - and I suspect neither would have Ned.

Jeff
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  #17  
Old 02-10-2015, 03:04 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Judging from Ned's photos, their faces fortunately weren't similar. Despite his bloodstained record I have some admiration for Ned with his suit of armor at that last battle. I have absolutely no admiration for Deeming - and I suspect neither would have Ned.

Jeff
Ned in spite of all his faults was always a ladies man, in fact it appears that a major factor in his turning to crime was the way his mum was treated, I suspect he would have kicked Deeming's butt.
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  #18  
Old 02-10-2015, 07:11 PM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
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Ned in spite of all his faults was always a ladies man, in fact it appears that a major factor in his turning to crime was the way his mum was treated, I suspect he would have kicked Deeming's butt.
Ned kicking Deeming's butt would have been the least of it. No where in Ned's record (and that of his gang) did they mistreat (and certainly not kill) any kids or babies. Deeming would have been lucky if Ned had just castrated him.

Jeff
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  #19  
Old 02-10-2015, 07:16 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Ned kicking Deeming's butt would have been the least of it. No where in Ned's record (and that of his gang) did they mistreat (and certainly not kill) any kids or babies. Deeming would have been lucky if Ned had just castrated him.

Jeff
I get confused sometimes when trying to keep things clean for some other forums, but that's pretty close and after castrating him either made him eat them or jammed them up his ...

Having said that I suspect that there would have been numerous others in gaol with fred that would have liked 10 minutes in his cell with him. Or in the exercise yard with no "screws" around.
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  #20  
Old 02-11-2015, 12:36 AM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
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I get confused sometimes when trying to keep things clean for some other forums, but that's pretty close and after castrating him either made him eat them or jammed them up his ...

Having said that I suspect that there would have been numerous others in gaol with fred that would have liked 10 minutes in his cell with him. Or in the exercise yard with no "screws" around.
From my reading up on "Mad Fred", he made a big production of his detestation of the citizens in Melbourne, and how he thought they were the ugliest people in the world. I am certain if the judge had ordered that Deeming be freed into the local mob the latter would have quickly gotten white hair just before the "uglies" got their hands on him.

He was never brave. In his miserable career he killed (that we know of) two women who mistakenly married him, and four children, one of whom was a baby. Even in the ascribed killings like the one in a South African mining area, the victim was shot from behind. Let's face it, Ned Kelly had more grit than this creep.

Jeff
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