Age of the Ripper?

[babybird67]

(apologies if there is already a thread for this - i did look but couldn't see anything)

It's interesting to speculate on the age of the man possible of committing the rippings.

There has been some discussion that 22 is too young an age therefore those suspects aged around 22 at the time should be considered less likely/eliminated from suspicion?

This would be in terms of people like Klosowski, Kozminski and Hutch?

I personally think 22 is old enough.

I came across this news story today, in which it is said:

"The jury heard the two defendants were now blaming each other but Mr Aylett said the crime was a joint enterprise of "unmitigated evil".

Mr Sonnex enjoyed using "gratuitous violence" and had a previous conviction for inflicting grievous bodily harm with intent for a stabbing he carried out at the age of 16, the jury heard."

full story here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8020498.stm

it's also interesting to note that this perpetrator was also accused of burglarly (in which he tied up his pregnant foster sister), arson, and the vicious murders of these two students (varying MO's, psychiatric condition, age etc all relevant here i think).

I think the age of the Ripper is up for debate because of the varying descriptons as much as anything.

any views anyone?

[Roy Corduroy]

Age of Suspects in 1888

Joseph Lis 20
Thomas Cutbush 22
Mary Pearcey 22
David Cohen 23
Severin Klosowski 23
Aaron Kosminski 23
Prince Albert Victor 24
Arbie La Bruckman 26
William Grant Grainger 28
George Hutchinson 28
James Kelly 28
Walter Sickert 28
W.H. Bury 29
Joseph Fleming 29
James Hardiman 29
James Kenneth Stephen 29
Francis Thompson 29
Joseph Barnett 30
Joseph Isaacs 30
Montague John Druitt 31
Dr. Pedachenko 31
Jacob Levy 32
Hyam Hyams 33
Alfred Napier Blanchard 34
Michael Kidney 36
Dr. T. Neill Cream 38
John Pizer 38
Nicholas Vassily 41
Jacob Isenschmid 45
Frederick Deeming 46
Robert Donston Stehenson 47
Carl Feigenbaum 48
Alois Szemeredy 48
James Maybrick 50
Tom Sadler 50
Michael Ostrog 55
Francis Tumblety 55
Lewis Carroll 56
Sir William Gull 71

Age not known-
Fogelma
G. Wentworth Bell Smith

Additions and corrections welcome - Roy

[Simon Wood]

Hi Roy,

A great post, which really puts 1888 in perspective.

The list of suspects basks in the glow of its own stupidity.

Regards,

Simon

[babybird67]

hi Roy

wow, thanks for that...suspects up to the age of 71!

Didn't one of the witnesses give an age from seeing the Ripper from the back? I don't know how one would ascertain age from the back myself.

Still think 22 is plenty old enough to be the Ripper myself.

[Christine]

I don't see any reason why the ripper couldn't have been 20 or 22. Why was this held to be too young?

One thing that I think is worth noting is that brain diseases such as schizophrenia usually manifest around the age of 20, basically at the end of puberty when the brain matures fully. A certain type of serial killer will fall into this age range, because when the person gets older he's likely to be confined to an asylum where he can't do much damage.

Kosminski appears to have been schizophrenic and fallen into this broad category, regardless of whether he actually killed anyone.

[Roy Corduroy]

wow, thanks for that...

Didn't one of the witnesses give an age from seeing the Ripper from the back?

You are welcome, Ms Bird 67

That witness would be Elizabeth Long in the Annie Chapman case (click)

Roy "Route 66"

[Roy Corduroy]

...brain diseases such as schizophrenia usually manifest around the age of 20, basically at the end of puberty when the brain matures fully. A certain type of serial killer will fall into this age range,

Kosminski appears to have been schizophrenic and fallen into this broad category...

Hi Christine,

In your profile, ruling out Lis and Klosowski because they were organized, we have Kosminki, Cohen, and Cutbush. If they were schizophrenic.

Roy

[Roy Corduroy]

Young Suspects

The young suspects fall into two types -

(A) Asylum - Kosminski, Cohen and Cutbush

(B) Criminal Types - Lis, Klosowski and Pearcy. Their later criminality was projected back to 88'

Then there's Clarence.

Roy

[DVV]

This would be in terms of people like Klosowski, Kozminski and Hutch?

I personally think 22 is old enough.

Hi BB,

picking up young suspects before saying that, since they're to be considered serious suspects though they're a bit too young, the Ripper wasn't that old... doesn't make the Ripper younger than he was...!!!

It just doesn't work this way.

If one wants to know the age of the Ripper, the only way is to read what the witnesses said.
And what did they say ?
They provide us with a 30 years old Ripper, or 35, or 36, or over 40...

You'll never find a 25 years old Ripper, let alone a 22.
But you're welcome to think: nobody has seen the Ripper, so he could be 22.

My last observation would be: we don't know how old was Hutch.
Lewis couldn't say.

Amitiés,
David

[Christine]

Hi BB,

picking up young suspects before saying that, since they're to be considered serious suspects though they're a bit too young, the Ripper wasn't that old... doesn't make the Ripper younger than he was...!!!

It just doesn't work this way.

If one wants to know the age of the Ripper, the only way is to read what the witnesses said.
And what did they say ?
They provide us with a 30 years old Ripper, or 35, or 36, or over 40...

You'll never find a 25 years old Ripper, let alone a 22.
But you're welcome to think: nobody has seen the Ripper, so he could be 22.

My last observation would be: we don't know how old was Hutch.
Lewis couldn't say.

Amitiés,
David

Except that Kosminski was named as a suspect by one of the witnesses.

I really don't know what to make of this. Kosminski looked older than his age? It was a different Aaron Kosminski? Or "David Cohen?" The witness was mistaken about the age? There was a witness we don't know about? The witness didn't really think the suspect looked like Kosminski, but was intimidated by the police and went along with it? Feel free to come up with better ideas....

[babybird67]

hi David

thanks for your thoughts!

I tend to think that none of the witnesses could agree on the age and if certain people estimated age merely from the back view i just don't see how that could be taken as a serious estimation...

Age is a funny thing. My mum is now in her sixties but she looked extremely young her whole life....people would estimate at least twenty years younger than actual age.

My sister also is 29. She came to stay last week. She has to carry her ID with her always, as she is asked for ID whenever she wants to buy cigarettes. Honestly she looks 14...not a day over.

There are people who do consistently look younger than they are, or older than they are, or are pretty hard to get a handle on whatever age they are. Especially when glanced for a milisecond in darkness by someone trying to obscure their features. And as you point out, the "real" Jack may never have been seen anyway.

I personally think Chapman is difficult to "age" accurately from his pictures but i am sure he is not the only suspect. Plus make-up/facial hair that might be used to mislead may suggest age that isn't accurate, if the killer had access to those things.

highly interesting as usual

[FrankO]

(apologies if there is already a thread for this - i did look but couldn't see anything)

It's interesting to speculate on the age of the man possible of committing the rippings.

There has been some discussion that 22 is too young an age therefore those suspects aged around 22 at the time should be considered less likely/eliminated from suspicion?
...
I think the age of the Ripper is up for debate because of the varying descriptons as much as anything.

any views anyone?

Hi Jen,

There already was a thread on the subject:

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=60998#post60998

But that doesn't matter much. You might still find something of interest there.

Here's how I worded my opinion there:

For what it's worth, I see some maturity in the way the Ripper went about his crimes, which tells me he was out of his early 20s, but the curiosity for and exploration of the female body that I see in the mutilations tell me he was still quite young. So, my guess would be that he was about 28.

All the best,
Frank

[babybird67]

thank you Frank

thanks for your comments and the link...i shall read it forthwith.

[FrankO]

You're very welcome, Babybird!