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  #21  
Old 12-11-2017, 09:11 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
I certainly wouldn’t want to eat a cake that someone had been forced against their will, for whatever reason, to make for me
Hi HS
I wouldn't either, and I'm sure they don't. I think theyre probably legally escalating for the principle of it and for future application (fairness).
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  #22  
Old 12-11-2017, 10:12 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Hi Abby,

I’m certain that you’re right
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  #23  
Old 12-11-2017, 11:23 AM
curious curious is offline
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Originally Posted by Ally View Post
The muslim caterer gets to offer a menu of what services they do and do not provide. No outside force can come in and demand you make something not on your menu.

The way to respect everyone is: if a baker disagrees with legal marriages in this country, don't make wedding cakes, just like the muslim baker doesn't cook pork products.

End of problem.
Agree totally, and with the folks who would not want to force someone to cook food they don't want to prepare. That's not really a good idea, either.

When I read the article someone provided a link to, I noticed that one of the Supreme Court Justices had pointed out something interesting: At the time the baker refused to bake the cake, gay marriage was not legal in the state. In effect, the baker was asked to participate in something that was still on the books as illegal. Wonder if that will have any weight?

I think the solution hinges on the request for special services. A small business owner can refuse special orders -- without having to provide any explanation.

This is a delicate situation that I hope we can find a way to handle with respect for each other.
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  #24  
Old 12-11-2017, 01:10 PM
Ally Ally is offline
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Quote:
In effect, the baker was asked to participate in something that was still on the books as illegal. Wonder if that will have any weight?
No, because I can buy a wedding cake for a cute ceremony where a five year old pretends to marry her two dogs or two barbies which aren't legal marriages either.

Having a mock ceremony isn't illegal. It just confers no legal benefits. There's a difference between something not being legal, and actually being illegal.
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  #25  
Old 12-11-2017, 01:19 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Originally Posted by curious View Post
Agree totally, and with the folks who would not want to force someone to cook food they don't want to prepare. That's not really a good idea, either.

When I read the article someone provided a link to, I noticed that one of the Supreme Court Justices had pointed out something interesting: At the time the baker refused to bake the cake, gay marriage was not legal in the state. In effect, the baker was asked to participate in something that was still on the books as illegal. Wonder if that will have any weight?

I think the solution hinges on the request for special services. A small business owner can refuse special orders -- without having to provide any explanation.

This is a delicate situation that I hope we can find a way to handle with respect for each other.
Was it illegal, or just not legal.
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  #26  
Old 12-11-2017, 04:33 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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You have to wonder about the role of religion in all of this. Would the baker have really cared if two people of the same sex were getting married if not for some book written thousands of years ago?

c.d.
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  #27  
Old 12-11-2017, 04:39 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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"But I'd still like to see them exposed and ridiculed for their stupidity and to lose business as a result."

Hello Caz,

I can certainly sympathize with this point of view but seeing the baker interviewed he did seem like a nice person and did attempt to offer other accommodations. The florist lady seemed nice as well. It is too bad that it has come down to this. Such is modern life.

c.d.
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  #28  
Old 12-11-2017, 05:08 PM
curious curious is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GUT View Post
Was it illegal, or just not legal.
I don't know.

Ally makes a great point.

However, gay rights are a major cultural change that is happening very quickly. In many places, participating in acts of gay love have actually been illegal and people have been put in prison. I have a feeling that mostly the laws were not enforced, but they were still on the books in some places.

I don't know what the real status was in the location at the time of the incidence. Maybe PC Dunn has a grasp of that. Isn't he the one who lives in the area?

I found it interesting that one of the justices mentioned the point that gay marriage was not legal in that state at the time of the incidence.

I am only recently beginning to understand the fear some of my gay friends have expressed. And maybe that's some indication of how far the pendulum has swung since I can be completely oblivious fairly often. My age shows here as this was a subject never discussed in my youth. So that is also an indication of how quickly this is changing as opposed to other cultural changes in the past.
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  #29  
Old 12-11-2017, 05:19 PM
curious curious is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
"But I'd still like to see them exposed and ridiculed for their stupidity and to lose business as a result."

Hello Caz,

I can certainly sympathize with this point of view but seeing the baker interviewed he did seem like a nice person and did attempt to offer other accommodations. The florist lady seemed nice as well. It is too bad that it has come down to this. Such is modern life.

c.d.
There are many nice people with very different views. Most of the views are cultural, which usually changes fairly slowly, but at this moment is changing rapidly.

Unfortunately, we are at a very low place in relationship to respect of differing views. I think people have to be allowed to follow their conscience and still make a living. And people have to be free to live their lives. I hope someone will be smart enough to find a middle ground -- which will, of course, mean that both sides are mad.
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  #30  
Old 12-11-2017, 05:35 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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Same sex marriage was never illegal in any state. There were just states where it was not recognized as a legally binding contract. Even if you went through with a same sex marriage ceremony it was not recognized as being valid by that particular state.

c.d.
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