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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Social Chat > Other Mysteries > A6 Murders

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  #3001  
Old 08-10-2015, 06:28 AM
Natalie Severn Natalie Severn is offline
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Mike Gregsten appears to have a very big head in the picture making the rest of him look tiny.I think this is probably the angle at which the picture was taken.Otherwise he looks quite debonair, up for having some fun maybe with his kids on holiday and self confident.William Ewer by contrast looks a big hulk of a man full of his own importance and rectitude.
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  #3002  
Old 08-10-2015, 07:16 AM
uncle_adolph uncle_adolph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickB View Post
Valerie addressed this issue on the Channel 4 documentary:

"It has been said I couldn't possibly identify this man because I only saw him for such a short time but in that situation, where one's senses are very much heightened and one's adrenaline is flowing, it leaves an incredibly strong impression on you.
Rather surprising, then, if the murderer made such a "strong impression" on her that she first off chose someone who it clearly couldn't have been.
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  #3003  
Old 08-10-2015, 07:36 AM
Sherlock Houses Sherlock Houses is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock Houses View Post
It would also tally with the not very complimenatary remark made by the sturdily built Ewer about his brother-in-law.
In his first statement [September 11th 1961 -- what an eventful day that was !!] Ewer said that his brother-in-law, Mike Gregsten "was not a robust person and always a bit of a mother's boy" {Woffinden book p.382].

Ewer also added..."There was talk of separation [from Janet] which was discussed with us...There were no great scenes and rows but Gregsten had a guilt complex about his association with Valerie, and on occasions said that he wondered why he had not been struck down."

Interesting that he referred to his brother-in-law by his surname and not his Christian name. Rather unusuaI. Obviously not bosom pals.
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  #3004  
Old 08-10-2015, 09:31 AM
NickB NickB is offline
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In contrast, Valerie said she didn’t feel “any pang of conscience” about it.

“If you firmly believe you are doing nothing wrong you just don’t suffer too much from guilt complexes.”

“We never really worked out how things were going to end up. Every time we got around to talking about things like that we could never arrive at any sort of decision.”

“He told me he wanted to marry me if ever he became free to do so. I wasn’t unduly worried. I was happy. I preferred to take life as it happened. I lived every day as it came. It was no use brooding about things that might never happen.”’

----

One more thought on Michael Clarke – couldn’t Alphon’s solicitor have described him?
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  #3005  
Old 08-10-2015, 09:38 AM
Derrick Derrick is offline
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Originally Posted by Limehouse View Post
Surely folks, the point is, if two men (Acott and Dr Rennie) standing in fairly close proximity to a man in broad day light cannot agree on basic characteristics such as hair and eye colour - how can we fully accept VS's description of a man whose face she saw briefly illuminated by a passing car?
Hi Julie

Exactly.

Del
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  #3006  
Old 08-10-2015, 10:12 AM
Natalie Severn Natalie Severn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickB View Post
One more thought on Michael Clarke – couldn’t Alphon’s solicitor have described him?
However.....here is what Alphon says about her Valerie's identification who stood in the line up with Michael Clark,
"I have maintained this position from the outset [that Hanratty was totally innocent] , being particularly disquieted by the police reliance on Miss Storie's identification of the accused in view of her previous selection of a patently innocent man,whose resemblance to her ultimate choice was virtually non-existent " [from a letter Alphon composed to the Home Secretary]

Last edited by Natalie Severn : 08-10-2015 at 10:14 AM.
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  #3007  
Old 08-10-2015, 10:17 AM
Spitfire Spitfire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie Severn View Post
It most definitely not perfectly acceptable Graham.

The first description is vital.If a witness today makes a positive identification of one individual ,no subsequent identification is permissable (sic).Equivacation and uncertainty are not enough.
That is wrong. I think you have said something like this before and backed it up with some journalist's view of what the law should be rather than what it actually is.

ID parades are now governed by PACE 1984 Code D of which Annex B is relevant and is to be found on page 51 of the 68 page document here.
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  #3008  
Old 08-10-2015, 10:22 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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Nick,

I don't think Alphon had any legal support at the Guy's Hospital ID parade.

Graham
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  #3009  
Old 08-10-2015, 10:23 AM
Spitfire Spitfire is offline
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The ID parade should have people on it who look like the suspect. In this case the suspect was Alphon, so it is reasonable to assume that the other members on the parade bore a passing resemblance to Alphon rather than Hanratty.

As Valerie Storie believed she had to pick out someone it is not surprising that she picked out someone with Alphonesque characteristics. It would have been interesting to see all members on the parade and to see the extent that she picked out the member on the parade least like Alphon. Also if there were no blue eyed boys in the line up, then again it is hardly surprising she did not select someone with blue eyes.

The modern requirement is for colour photos or a colour video of the ID parade to be taken.
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  #3010  
Old 08-10-2015, 10:39 AM
Natalie Severn Natalie Severn is offline
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Thanks Spitfire ,I understand .
My information on this comes from a lawyer, Gareth Peirce and this is what she wrote in 2010:
"There are now new practices for evidence based that most fragile of human attributes ,visual memory.Witnesses must not be prompted;witnesses memory ,as far as possible ,must be as safely protected from contamination as a crime scene.The first description is vital.If a witness makes a positive identification of one individual ,no subsequent identification of a second is permissible.Equivocation and uncertainty are not enough.

Gareth Peirce , lawyer
2010
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