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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #1  
Old 10-23-2018, 12:55 PM
Batman Batman is offline
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Default Jack the Ripper learned don't eviscerate before you exsanguinate

JtR didn't understand much about the human body it seems.
  • JtR stabbed Smith in the private region and got very bloody.
  • JtR stabbed Tabram all over and only made one stab at her private parts after she had bled out. He got less blood on himself this time.
  • JtR nearly severed Nichols neck and exsanguinated her. He made a few scratches at the start on her belly to see if she would drip blood. Those scratches are in the autopsy. So he doesn't know even after her neck has been nearly severed if she will bleed a lot out. He actually leaves evidence of testing it. He checked ripping her womb and discovered it did not leave him very bloody.
  • JtR exsanguinated Chapman with a slice to the neck and then disemboweled her and was able to take away internal organs without much blood on him from his experiment with Nichols.
  • JtR while waiting for Eddowes to exsanguinate from her severed neck, knifed up her face and then proceeded to harvest organs like Chapman when she was bled dry. He knew how long it would take and had time to attack her face, waiting.
  • JtR repeated the process with Kelly and this time had a bed to absorb lots of blood. He finally achieved his pinnacle of childish exploration on a corpse.

This means JtR is very concerned about something. Getting blood on himself. Given what seems a lack of medical knowledge and that he can't be found to have blood on himself, we can almost rule out slaughterhouses, butchers, medical people etc. He could not be seen with blood on him as it would most certainly have looked out of place.

We also suspect that he may be a lot younger than previously thought.

He has learned nearly everything he did through prior experience with victims.

Smith and Tabram seem to be the key to finding his early life as a pre-JtR character.
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  #2  
Old 10-23-2018, 01:54 PM
Kattrup Kattrup is offline
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Thank you Batman, that is imho a very original and thought provoking idea.

I don’t agree with it, but it’s interesting

What don’t I agree with? Well Smith being a victim, for one, and exsanguination happening quickly enough to have an effect. JtR waiting around - for how long? - in order to get slightly less blood on him? I’m not convinced.
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  #3  
Old 10-23-2018, 02:12 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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People back then, perhaps more so than now, would have known that the most effective way to kill a pig or lamb would be to slit its throat. Jack didn't need to learn by trial and error that (metaphorically) jabbing a pig with a skewer isn't the quickest or tidiest means of going about killing and eviscerating it.
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  #4  
Old 10-23-2018, 02:55 PM
etenguy etenguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
JtR didn't understand much about the human body it seems.
  • JtR stabbed Smith in the private region and got very bloody.
  • JtR stabbed Tabram all over and only made one stab at her private parts after she had bled out. He got less blood on himself this time.
  • JtR nearly severed Nichols neck and exsanguinated her. He made a few scratches at the start on her belly to see if she would drip blood. Those scratches are in the autopsy. So he doesn't know even after her neck has been nearly severed if she will bleed a lot out. He actually leaves evidence of testing it. He checked ripping her womb and discovered it did not leave him very bloody.
  • JtR exsanguinated Chapman with a slice to the neck and then disemboweled her and was able to take away internal organs without much blood on him from his experiment with Nichols.
  • JtR while waiting for Eddowes to exsanguinate from her severed neck, knifed up her face and then proceeded to harvest organs like Chapman when she was bled dry. He knew how long it would take and had time to attack her face, waiting.
  • JtR repeated the process with Kelly and this time had a bed to absorb lots of blood. He finally achieved his pinnacle of childish exploration on a corpse.

This means JtR is very concerned about something. Getting blood on himself. Given what seems a lack of medical knowledge and that he can't be found to have blood on himself, we can almost rule out slaughterhouses, butchers, medical people etc. He could not be seen with blood on him as it would most certainly have looked out of place.

We also suspect that he may be a lot younger than previously thought.

He has learned nearly everything he did through prior experience with victims.

Smith and Tabram seem to be the key to finding his early life as a pre-JtR character.
This is an interesting idea, but given his mutilation of the bodies, I am not sure he was avoiding blood. That he learned and applied his learning as he progressed is probable. I personally think Tabram was his first victim.

When teaching skills, my experience is that the biggest difference in approach happens between the first and second attempt. Future changes tend to be less different until with practice only small refinements are made. That can lead to a certain smugness and then over performing. The language isn't right when applied to murder and mutilation, but I think the process is the same. I think this is what we see with the JtR murders.
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  #5  
Old 10-23-2018, 03:19 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
JtR didn't understand much about the human body it seems. .
Well he must have learnt quickly, if it is to be accepted that he removed a kidney, and a uterus in under 5 minutes in almost total darkness with a degree of anatomical knowledge, when he only it would seem had Chapman to practice on

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Last edited by Trevor Marriott : 10-23-2018 at 03:26 PM.
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  #6  
Old 10-23-2018, 03:27 PM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Well he must have learnt quickly, if it is to be accepted that he removed a kidney, and a uterus in under 5 minutes in almost total darkness with a degree of anatomical knowledge

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Luck many will have us believe Trevor
Maybe he had a miners cap and an anatomical text book with him ......
Kidney removal for beginners .....
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  #7  
Old 10-23-2018, 04:00 PM
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The issue of light was going to be Pt II of this topic.

I see his traces of experiments as evidence for JtRs inexperience. Instead of preconceptions about how people should be, this tells me a lot of things about who JtR is with respect to knowledge about bleeding out. He simply didn't know for sure he won't get very bloody even after he had severed Nichols neck. In short, he had no clue and was learning by himself.

https://www.casebook.org/images//rip.../woundsman.jpg
This explains the double puncture wounds on Nichols private parts, the several cuts and then eventually the bigger gash.

She is like a midway point where he goes from hitting Tabram on the head, probably from behind, to punching Nichols out (see autopsy) and slicing her throat. No more mistakes like Emma Smith getting away and Martha Tabram with a blade stuck in her sternum that is supposed to puncture her heart. No more stabbing frenzy to kill them. However, will he get bloody as he did with the others? He waits until Nichols has bled out a lot and then he experiments and finds he can do a lot more than just cut next time. He even figures out that he has time for designs on their faces waiting for the body to vacate as much blood as possible. No wonder he went from Stride to Eddowes so quick. He was on a mission to test all of these findings out.

I want to elaborate more on what I mean by blood on him. We must assume first of all this means what it means. If he has lots of blood on him then he will stand out. So not a butcher or anyone experienced with cutting up animals. His lack of medical understanding is clear from the experimentation. This is more like someone who has no business reason being around blood. However, there is a deeper reasoning for reducing blood on himself.

The deeper reason was provided at least a decade ago when analysts noticed that these types of lust murders are doing something which is a bit of a psychological conflict, namely getting the blood of someone they have an immense hatred for on themselves. It is almost as if someone they hate has spat on them. They feel sullied or made dirty by this interaction with the unfortunate. It would even be used to emotionally shake him during interrogations. To suggest he literally got blood on his hands. Anyway, that's just a psychological point and doesn't really add or take from anything.

Anyway what I hope I have done here was give reasons for why Nichols has those scratches on her abdomen and puncture wounds and a sort of half attempt at opening her up her womb.

... and yes, he obviously did need some form of light for this to work out. I would like to know if soldiers were issued 'fussee' lighters for certain specialized tasks.
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  #8  
Old 10-23-2018, 07:14 PM
Damaso Marte Damaso Marte is offline
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He did seem to know which way to cut the neck to not get blood spray onto himself.
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  #9  
Old 10-23-2018, 07:34 PM
DJA DJA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
[*]JtR nearly severed Nichols neck and exsanguinated her. He made a few scratches at the start on her belly to see if she would drip blood. Those scratches are in the autopsy. So he doesn't know even after her neck has been nearly severed if she will bleed a lot out. He actually leaves evidence of testing it. He checked ripping her womb and discovered it did not leave him very bloody.
No idea where you get this from.

What scratches are in the autopsy?
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Old 10-23-2018, 10:41 PM
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No idea where you get this from.

What scratches are in the autopsy?
https://www.casebook.org/images//rip.../woundsman.jpg

There are three or four cuts on her right lower abdomen side and two puncture wounds on her private parts. Then you have the wider deeper gash that is jagged on her left side. It is the right side lower wounds that aren't like the deeper gash I am talking about. It looks like he was testing how much she would bleed before he made the deeper wider gash.
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