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  #21  
Old 10-25-2018, 06:38 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmenges View Post
Dear Jonathan,
Big revelations! Really a re-run of something I said years ago, that while most of Jack l'Eventreur is manifest fictions, there are obvious suggestions at the beginning that he really did have some interesting information deriving from the original police work on the case, and this was conclusively proved when Adrian Phypers established that the MJK photographs and the Frances Coles mortuary photograph were taken by a photographer who was, as Dorsenne had said, an active musician playing in East End music halls and clubs. This in turn means that we need to take seriously his remark that it was only Sergeant Thick who identified Pizer as Leather Apron, and since the identification was challenged by Pizer and denied by his neighbors, it is safe to assume that he was never a real suspect, but a necessary Jew who could be proven innocent to damp down the threat of race riots provoked by the knowledge that the police thought the Ripper was a Jewish.
Strangely, the only person who has endorsed this is Bruce Robinson in his generally extremely silly They All Love Jack..

Best,
Martin F

It was Pizer's family and near neighbours who denied he was known as Leather Apron. But it was the lodging house women of Spitalfields who raised the spectre of Leather Apron. If Pizer was the man so called, why would his family know? Were they also habitues of seedy doss houses? One of his neighbours, a local publican, described Pizer as a wastrel who was 'fond of women' and wore his leather apron whether he was in work or not. And he was also denounced by several women in Church Street, one of whom he admitted was always bothering him.
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  #22  
Old 10-25-2018, 06:45 AM
Batman Batman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmenges View Post
Dear Jonathan,
Big revelations! Really a re-run of something I said years ago, that while most of Jack l'Eventreur is manifest fictions, there are obvious suggestions at the beginning that he really did have some interesting information deriving from the original police work on the case, and this was conclusively proved when Adrian Phypers established that the MJK photographs and the Frances Coles mortuary photograph were taken by a photographer who was, as Dorsenne had said, an active musician playing in East End music halls and clubs. This in turn means that we need to take seriously his remark that it was only Sergeant Thick who identified Pizer as Leather Apron, and since the identification was challenged by Pizer and denied by his neighbors, it is safe to assume that he was never a real suspect, but a necessary Jew who could be proven innocent to damp down the threat of race riots provoked by the knowledge that the police thought the Ripper was a Jewish.
Strangely, the only person who has endorsed this is Bruce Robinson in his generally extremely silly They All Love Jack..

Best,
Martin F
Thanks for this update. I agree on the generally extremely silly statement about that book's hypothesis.

The first JtR book I ever read was Crimes, Detection and Death of Jack the Ripper.

Still important today what with Kozminski still a favorite.
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  #23  
Old 10-25-2018, 06:50 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
It was Pizer's family and near neighbours who denied he was known as Leather Apron. But it was the lodging house women of Spitalfields who raised the spectre of Leather Apron. If Pizer was the man so called, why would his family know? Were they also habitues of seedy doss houses? One of his neighbours, a local publican, described Pizer as a wastrel who was 'fond of women' and wore his leather apron whether he was in work or not. And he was also denounced by several women in Church Street, one of whom he admitted was always bothering him.
not to mention he admitted to being Leather Apron, under oath and documented.
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quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #24  
Old 10-25-2018, 06:58 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
not to mention he admitted to being Leather Apron, under oath and documented.
Ah, but pressure was put on him by that arch-villian, Johnny Upright, an agent of the Whitechapel Murderer's Appreciation Society. Or possibly not.
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  #25  
Old 10-25-2018, 07:10 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Ah, but pressure was put on him by that arch-villian, Johnny Upright, an agent of the Whitechapel Murderer's Appreciation Society. Or possibly not.
LOL!!
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #26  
Old 10-25-2018, 08:54 AM
Monty Monty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmenges View Post
Dear Jonathan,
Big revelations! Really a re-run of something I said years ago, that while most of Jack l'Eventreur is manifest fictions, there are obvious suggestions at the beginning that he really did have some interesting information deriving from the original police work on the case, and this was conclusively proved when Adrian Phypers established that the MJK photographs and the Frances Coles mortuary photograph were taken by a photographer who was, as Dorsenne had said, an active musician playing in East End music halls and clubs. This in turn means that we need to take seriously his remark that it was only Sergeant Thick who identified Pizer as Leather Apron, and since the identification was challenged by Pizer and denied by his neighbors, it is safe to assume that he was never a real suspect, but a necessary Jew who could be proven innocent to damp down the threat of race riots provoked by the knowledge that the police thought the Ripper was a Jewish.
Strangely, the only person who has endorsed this is Bruce Robinson in his generally extremely silly They All Love Jack..

Best,
Martin F
Thought it was Rob Mac who established Joseph Martin as the photographer.

Monty
🙂
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  #27  
Old 10-25-2018, 08:59 AM
Monty Monty is offline
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Never a real suspect? As opposed to a false one?

If only Martin paid heed to his 1995 WS talk

Pizer was clearly, in the initial stages, a person of interest to the police.

Monty
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  #28  
Old 10-25-2018, 09:10 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Unless you believe in a conspiracy involving William Thick and the Church Street (Hanbury Street) women, then there is corroboration for Thick's identification of Pizer as LA. Add to that Pizer's neighbour thinking it noteworthy to mention his bad character and habitual wearing of said apron and it's case closed IMO. It was perfectly reasonable for Thick, who had lived very close to the Pizer's for some time, to think Pizer might be the LA being gossiped about by the lodging house women.
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  #29  
Old 10-25-2018, 09:25 AM
jmenges jmenges is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty View Post
Thought it was Rob Mac who established Joseph Martin as the photographer.

Monty
��
I believe Adrian was the first to discover Joseph Martin's obituary which mentions him as the Met police mortuary photographer, as well as the interview where Martin specifically mentions taking the Ripper victim photographs (except Eddowes). RJM ties Martin to not only the Met mortuary photos but the crime scene photos in Millers Court.

JM
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  #30  
Old 10-25-2018, 09:46 AM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi Monty,

Just read your Post #19.

What a sorry state of affairs.

Trust you're well.

Simon
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