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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #11  
Old 05-23-2008, 06:36 PM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Hi Pinkerton

Sam`s the man to answer this with authority,but, I would hazard a guess it is all about blood pressure. The initial gush is very strong due to the blood pressure, but once the pressure has subsided the blood would pump out slowly.
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  #12  
Old 05-23-2008, 06:41 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Hi Pinkerton,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkerton View Post
After all you have TWO carotid arteries and two jugular veins, along with other veins and arteries. My point being if you were to cut the throat deeply, almost all the way around, wouldn't it be near impossible to avoid getting sprayed?
The initial, more energetic jets of blood would issue from the first carotid artery to be cut, the blood pressure dropping significantly thereafter with each pulse. I would expect that, by the time the blade reached the "near-side" of the victim's neck, much of the pressure would have been diffused sufficently to allow only a weak pulsation from the carotid artery nearest the killer's body. If the victim's head were angled away from the first cut - in Nichols' and Chapman's case, inclined towards the right shoulder - then the compression of the tissues may have limited carotid flow to a mere "ooze" on that side. (Note that Catherine Eddowes only had her left carotid severed to any appreciable depth, its homologue on the right pierced only to the extent of a "fine pinhole".)
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  #13  
Old 05-23-2008, 06:42 PM
Observer Observer is offline
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Hi Pinkerton

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkerton View Post
Forgive my ignorance of general anatomy, but wouldn't the fact that most of the victims had their throats cut almost ALL THE WAY AROUND the neck (down to the vertebrae) cause the blood to spurt in almost ALL directions? After all you have TWO carotid arteries and two jugular veins, along with other veins and arteries. My point being if you were to cut the throat deeply, almost all the way around, wouldn't it be near impossible to avoid getting sprayed?

From this animation it appears that the veins and arteries are "clustered" on the left and right side of the neck. Therefore if you cut the throat almost all the way around how could you possibly hope to direct the victim's head (and body) to avoid getting sprayed?

http://www.doereport.com/generateexh...=4294967295&A=
This was certainly the case with Chapman, incidently if Chapman's throat was cut as she lay on the ground, and her head was between the steps and the fence of No 29, where was the position of the killer when he cut her throat? It would be a bit awkward trying to remain to one side of the victim in this case.

All the best

Observer

Last edited by Observer : 05-23-2008 at 06:49 PM. Reason: to add to post
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  #14  
Old 05-23-2008, 06:47 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
Sam`s the man to answer this with authority.
I'd say "reasonably informed", rather than "authoritative", Jon, but thank you for your kind words.

Our posts on the question of blood flow crossed, and you'll note that we are in broad agreement - which is nice
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  #15  
Old 05-23-2008, 07:05 PM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Our posts on the question of blood flow crossed, and you'll note that we are in broad agreement - which is nice
Indeed, Sam, that will be the South Wales Education system !!!

Queen Elizabeth Grammar School, Carmarthen (home of Mary Kelly)
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  #16  
Old 05-23-2008, 10:50 PM
Tom_Wescott Tom_Wescott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy
Indeed, Sam, that will be the South Wales Education system !!!
Englishmen, make note that the Welsh are being taught in their schools how to avoid blood spray when cutting a throat. Me wonders what they're up to!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
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  #17  
Old 05-23-2008, 10:58 PM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
Englishmen, make note that the Welsh are being taught in their schools how to avoid blood spray when cutting a throat. Me wonders what they're up to!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
When the sheep refuse to wear wellington boots,that`s when they are slaughtered...
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  #18  
Old 05-23-2008, 11:55 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
When the sheep refuse to wear wellington boots,that`s when they are slaughtered...
...the motto of Queen Elizabeth Grammar, if I'm not mistaken. Translated, of course. "Yr ŵyn na wisgant welis gânt eu lladd" - but then, you knew that already, Jon
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  #19  
Old 06-04-2008, 12:15 AM
NOV9 NOV9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkerton View Post
Forgive my ignorance of general anatomy, but wouldn't the fact that most of the victims had their throats cut almost ALL THE WAY AROUND the neck (down to the vertebrae) cause the blood to spurt in almost ALL directions? After all you have TWO carotid arteries and two jugular veins, along with other veins and arteries. My point being if you were to cut the throat deeply, almost all the way around, wouldn't it be near impossible to avoid getting sprayed?

From this animation it appears that the veins and arteries are "clustered" on the left and right side of the neck. Therefore if you cut the throat almost all the way around how could you possibly hope to direct the victim's head (and body) to avoid getting sprayed?

http://www.doereport.com/generateexh...=4294967295&A=
I have read about a killer using a scarf to wrap around the neck before he cut the throat to prevent the blood from spraying all over him.

NOV9
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  #20  
Old 06-04-2008, 03:56 AM
perrymason
 
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I think there can be an argument made for only a single kill being potentially bloodless as far as the killer was concerned. At the very least hands or gloves or cuffs would have been bloody at 3 of the other 4, and at one he would have been heavily bloodied likely from the waist up.

Its not as if he stood around and waited for them to bleed out, and at least 3 of them he stuck his hands into the wounds, one perhaps seconds after the throat cut based on his time. Sprays one thing, but none of them were proven bled dry before he cut either.

Best regards.
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