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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #1151  
Old 12-14-2018, 06:32 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
Ah, but why did he do most of his killing of semi-vagrant doss-house residents in an area where there was the greatest concentration of such? He must have lived there himself - no?��

Let’s imagine our killer had a thing against fishmongers and killed five of them in the early hours in the streets around Billingsgate. Would it be safe to assume he lived in Lower Thames Street?
Pertinent enough questions! Let's see how they are answered by others. How I answer them, you already know.
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  #1152  
Old 12-14-2018, 06:35 AM
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Now try the same trick for Chapman, Stride, Eddowes and Kelly. Or Smith, Tabram, Kenzie, and Coles, if you like.
I did. A very long time ago. And I already said that Levy was closer generally speaking. And if we measure from the homes of the two suspects.

If we instead measure the distance from Lechmere´s working trek to these sites, accepting that he walked no further north than Hanbury Street and no further south than Old Montague, another picture emerges. In that case, he is never more than three minutes walk away - and he may well have been three seconds away only. How does Levy match that?
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  #1153  
Old 12-14-2018, 06:36 AM
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Why leave out the Pinchin Street victim or Mylett?

It would be interesting to see what effect their inclusion had on the ‘hot zone’.
I think you know why, Gary.
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  #1154  
Old 12-14-2018, 06:40 AM
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Sam Flynn: It's of course possible that he swanned in from outside..


It IS? WOW!!!

...but, pragmatically, a locally-based killer is by far the more likely.

"By far"? Just how do you quantify that? How is somebody living in an area more likely to be the killer than somebody being in place in that area? Isn't that the exact same thing - the presence in the area is what speaks for potential guilt?

If I got that wrong, how is living in the area so much more murderous the. just BEING PRESENT in the area? Just how does that work? And to such a significant effect so as to render Levy by far more likely a killer than Lechmere, geographically speaking?
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  #1155  
Old 12-14-2018, 06:41 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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I think that's the latest known address for him before 1888, but I'll be happy to be corrected on this.
I don’t know the answer myself.

The article says:

36, Middlesex Street where Kelly's London Business Directory for 1888 lists Jacob Levy, his wife Sarah, and numerous children as residing, with Jacob once again employed as a butcher.

Did Kelly’s provide information on where families lived?

I know it’s a small error, as was the comment that Hutch saw A-man again in Middlesex street.

What was left out from the Old Bailey transcript is Sampson’s statement: ‘the Jewish authorities will not give a man a licence unless he has an excellent character’ I’m not sure if he was talking just about himself. But it was certainly said that Levy received a good character.
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  #1156  
Old 12-14-2018, 06:45 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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What exact problem is it you are having with Lechmere, geographically?
That there were THOUSANDS of local men better placed to access, and escape from, the scenes of the crimes at any time, without needing any excuses to place them there.
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  #1157  
Old 12-14-2018, 06:45 AM
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Just on that point, which I too thought might be significant, it's interesting that Levy wouldn't have overshot his home by much; it's almost literally just around the corner. In the image below, the "Happy Days" restaurant is where the apron was deposited, and "Artisan House" is 36 Middlesex Street, Levy's home:
Maybe he was running so fast that he misjudged the braking time? Overshot is overshot, Gareth, it is an illogical factor that - though not ruling Levy out - speaks against him as a candidate.
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  #1158  
Old 12-14-2018, 06:49 AM
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That there were THOUSANDS of local men better placed to access, and escape from, the scenes of the crimes at any time, without needing any excuses to place them there.
How does that rule Lechmere out in any shape or form? How does it lower his value as a suspect, given that we KNOW that he WAS in the area on a daily basis. Is that not the exact thing an address there says about any of your thousands of potential killers? That they are linked to the area?
Well, so is Lechmere.
Speaking about an "excuse" in this context is rude and not very clever. After all, we are looking for people who have links to the area and the murder spots. I understand that it irks you that Lechmere fits the bill, but why speak of excuses when you discuss him? Have you ever spoken about how people make excuses to place Kosminski in the vicinity? I should think not - that would be rude and not very clever, right?

Last edited by Fisherman : 12-14-2018 at 06:52 AM.
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  #1159  
Old 12-14-2018, 06:53 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
The article says:

36, Middlesex Street where Kelly's London Business Directory for 1888 lists Jacob Levy, his wife Sarah, and numerous children as residing, with Jacob once again employed as a butcher.

Did Kelly’s provide information on where families lived?

I know it’s a small error
Is it an error? I have no reason to suppose that the Levy family lived off-premises and, even if they did, it's interesting enough to know that JL definitely had a foothold in Middlesex Street at the time.
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  #1160  
Old 12-14-2018, 06:57 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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How does that rule Lechmere out in any shape or form?
Who's ruling him out? I'm just pointing out the fact that there would have been thousands more men who were better placed than him to commit, and get away with, murder at any given time.
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