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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #1071  
Old 12-13-2018, 07:45 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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An insane butcher and convicted criminal who stayed up nights and lived between the Mitre Sq. murder and the GSG and who had contracted syphilis and who died in a lunatic asylum shortly after the murders is apparently not a strong suspect.

Just gloss over that chap and let's go chasing someone far more appealing with links to the case.

What suspect even comes close to Jacob Levy?

Kozminski and Levy has him beat in certain departments.

Also, it is not like Kozminski is the only one with a possible witness connection here is it?

Looks like we may have a link between Joseph Levy, the Eddowes witness and Jacob Levy.

That's got a lot of explanatory power right there.
I would say that being insane (overtly) and violent (overtly-police record) would point away from him being the ripper. The others you mention would point to him in my opinion.
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  #1072  
Old 12-13-2018, 07:46 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Lechmere lives outside of the geoprofile. Levy doesn't. Levy is in the green zone around Middlesex St.

In terms of geoprofiling, Levy is the stronger candidate.
I agree with this, but with nothing tying him to the case-hes not even a valid suspect IMHO.
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"Is all that we see or seem
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #1073  
Old 12-13-2018, 07:47 AM
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Lechmere was ALWAYS linked to the case. His physical presence at one of the murder sites at the relevant time of one of the deeds is proven. That puts him lightyears ahead of anybody who is not proven to have been anywhere near the crime sites.
No, it doesn't. Kozminski can't be proven to have been near any of the sites and yet a witness ID of Kozminski puts him lightyears ahead of any witness helping a victim like Cross that you want to paint a serial killer.
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  #1074  
Old 12-13-2018, 07:47 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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We don't know what his links to the case are if any in an official capacity. Maybe he was looked into and cleared and that's why this insane butcher doesn't feature in the case at all. Maybe Kozminski was confused with him. We don't know and more research is needed.

What we can do though is compare and contrast him with suspects, especially people's personal favourites here.

How he stands up against them. So we can certainly use that sort of relative model.

I find it extremely strange you want to discuss my wet dreams. I don't think we should chalk this up to one of your finer moments on Casebook.
Which ARE my finer moments, then? I´d love to know.

Sure enough, we don't know if Levy was looked into. That is why I say that he is not linked to the case.

And that is also why he does not stand up to Lechmere, for example.

The bad guys have always raised an interest, and the equation is an easy one:
The Ripper was a bad guy.
My suspect is a bad guy.
He is therefore quite possibly the Ripper.

Do you know how many bad guys there were in Whitechapel? In London? They would make up an army, Batman.

Do you know that Lechmere was NOT a bad guy?

Did people think that Theodore Bundy WAS a bad guy?

The simple truth is that all investigations must start from a point where the ones we know are physically tied to a crime site takes precedence over bad guys in general, so long as we don't have a type of crime that is extremely rare and very much tied to a single person.
We don´t have that here. There was nobody the police could pick out of the crowds and say "here is our guy, he has ripped and eviscerated like this before".

And so, what we are left with is people's prejudices about how a ripping eviscerator will look and behave. You think he will behave like Levy, others think that Bury or Chapman or Kelly or somebody else will be a better likeness - a better likeness of a man we do not know in depth at all. And all the while, these men are unlinked too the crimes as such, practically speaking.

Its fool's game, and those who play it are fools if you ask me.

Last edited by Fisherman : 12-13-2018 at 07:49 AM.
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  #1075  
Old 12-13-2018, 07:52 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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I was responding to an earlier question about his mental illness in which I pointed out what we can't jump from his illness to serial killer. That was all. What we can do is look at the specifics of his case and compare it to what we know with JtR. It points at him and not away from him. Some mental illnesses would point away from him, right? So illness could be used as exculpatory evidence. That's my point and I am really just repeating myself here.
ok yes-got it now-thanks!

I agree overt mental illness would point away from him and related to that ending up in a mental asylum.

and I also-agree that where he lived and his propensity to be out at night would point to him.

but I also think that overt violent nature and or police record for it-especially if its toward his victimology type-points away from him.

as I mentioned before most post mortem type serial killers don't display this.
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #1076  
Old 12-13-2018, 07:53 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Lechmere was ALWAYS linked to the case. His physical presence at one of the murder sites at the relevant time of one of the deeds is proven.
Levy lived right in the middle of the Ripper's territory, which places him within easy walking (and escaping) distance of all the canonical, and some non-canonical, murders. And we don't need the Deus-ex-machinery of "work treks" or "visiting mum" to place him there, either.
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  #1077  
Old 12-13-2018, 07:56 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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No, it doesn't. Kozminski can't be proven to have been near any of the sites and yet a witness ID of Kozminski puts him lightyears ahead of any witness helping a victim like Cross that you want to paint a serial killer.
Nope. Before Kosminski can be linked to one or more of the sites, he is not even a suspect in the real sense of the word. More people root for him, but that's just old habits, nothing else. None of them can link him in any way.

But I can link Lechmere. Like it or not, but that's what the police will prioritize.

-He is SUCH a mad, bad man, and people say he is most probably the killer!

-He was found alone with one of the victims, killed at a time that is consistent with him being the killer.

Which description do you think the police would prioritize in their murder hunt? The rating of Ripper suspects is nothing but the result of years and years of frustration over not being able to find a REAL suspect. Layers and layers of a misguided will to catch the killer is what we are looking at today.

Once we sober up and start fresh, Lechmere is actually the only really good candidate. Sorry, but there you are.

And Levy remains unlinked to the case.

Where are those earlier posts of mine where I confuse the two Levys, by the way? You are not doing a runner, are you?
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  #1078  
Old 12-13-2018, 07:58 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Levy lived right in the middle of the Ripper's territory, which places him within easy walking (and escaping) distance of all the canonical, and some non-canonical, murders. And we don't need the Deus-ex-machinery of "work treks" or "visiting mum" to place him there, either.
He remains painfully unlinked to the case, though. And you remain the person who always goes on about how many people there were living in that vicious, vicious area. Surely they can all compete with Levy, even if Lechmere cannot?
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  #1079  
Old 12-13-2018, 08:06 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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He remains painfully unlinked to the case, though.
Not any more.
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And you remain the person who always goes on about how many people there were living in that vicious, vicious area. Surely they can all compete with Levy, even if Lechmere cannot?
Yes, I'm sure there would have been plenty of equally, if not more, viable candidates than Levy in the area. Even more, when one considers all those men of outwardly "normal" behaviour, and not just the violent lunatics.
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  #1080  
Old 12-13-2018, 08:20 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Sam Flynn: Not any more.

So have you finally linked him to one or more of the murder sites? Because that is what it takes to link him. Otherwise, as I said before, he will only be linked to the studies of the case, not to the case itself.

Yes, I'm sure there would have been plenty of equally, if not more, viable candidates than Levy in the area. Even more, when one considers all those men of outwardly "normal" behaviour, and not just the violent lunatics.

Mmm. And can you see how that dilutes the value of Jacob Levy as a suspect?
Before he can be PRACTICALLY linked to the case, he remains nothing but one of many people who lived a challenged life back in the East End - together with thousands of other people who suffered the same fate. Its Levy today, it will be someone else tomorrow, and they will answer to the same description: They are unliked to the case.
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