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  #101  
Old 02-07-2018, 08:00 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
Oh okay, so because only one of the ears was taken off instead of both as promised, it`s a hoax.
Was it taken away? Was it sent to the police? Did the postcard refer to Eddowes at all, never mind the killer's (apparently only partial) success with her (one) ear?
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  #102  
Old 02-07-2018, 08:22 AM
Hunter Hunter is offline
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I realize that for some reason Nurse Ratched apparently hasn't been in lately to put saltpeter in some of the members' medication, or to bring new inmates into her ward, but couldn't everyone just play nice anyway?

Cut the personal insults!


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When evidence is not to be had, theories abound. Even the most plausible of them do not carry conviction- London Times Nov. 10.1888

Last edited by Hunter : 02-07-2018 at 08:24 AM.
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  #103  
Old 02-07-2018, 08:30 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Was it taken away? Was it sent to the police?

Quote:
Did the postcard refer to Eddowes at all, never mind the killer's (apparently only partial) success with her (one) ear?
The postcard does refer to a double event, so that will include Eddowes, and I can see the full stop after number one squealed a bit couldn`t finish straight off. and then it starts a new sentence; ha not the time to get ears for the police .. was he referring to Stride ?

If the killer did write it, he knew that the police were aware that an ear had been sliced off, and was writing about his promise in the first letter. He didn`t have time to get both ears for police, not that he didn`t have time to cut an ear off.

Even the wording of clipping ears off. That is exactly what has happened to Eddowes ear.
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  #104  
Old 02-07-2018, 09:00 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
The postcard does refer to a double event, so that will include Eddowes, and I can see the full stop after number one squealed a bit couldn`t finish straight off. and then it starts a new sentence; ha not the time to get ears for the police .. was he referring to Stride ?

If the killer did write it, he knew that the police were aware that an ear had been sliced off, and was writing about his promise in the first letter. He didn`t have time to get both ears for police, not that he didn`t have time to cut an ear off.

Even the wording of clipping ears off. That is exactly what has happened to Eddowes ear.
I'm not sure you can have it both ways, Jon. Are you saying that the thin sliver of ear removed when Jack's knife clipped Eddowes' ear was deliberate, and would have been sent to the police along with another sliver from the other ear, if he'd had more time?
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  #105  
Old 02-07-2018, 09:15 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
. Are you saying that the thin sliver of ear removed when Jack's knife clipped Eddowes' ear was deliberate, and would have been sent to the police along with another sliver from the other ear, if he'd had more time?
I think it more likely, taking into account of Dear Boss, that the ear was deliberately clipped, than accidentally removed.
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  #106  
Old 02-07-2018, 09:23 AM
James_J James_J is offline
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Just passing this along from KS :-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
I was just pondering this point myself...
As far as I can tell, there's no corroboration of the two letters' existence outside the Central News before the 1st Oct. Yes, the Dear Boss envelope wad postmarked 27th Sept, but there's no way to be sure the letter (or that version of the letter) was inside it. It's easy enough to put a false date at thr top of a letter if you're faking it. Likewise, without proof of when Dear Boss was received by the police, it remains possible that it was written (or rewritten) and forwarded to Mr Williamson after the Double Event had occurred, but with the covering letter dated the day before.

TO JOSHUA ROGAN

Thank you Joshua. I was tending to take the letter of September 25th 1888, (plus envelope), together with the accompanying letter of September 29th 1888 at face value, without giving consideration to the possibility of a false date being added or it being rewritten or replaced by another letter.

The “Dear Boss” letter, as you know, was returned anonymously to Scotland Yard in November 1987. In August 1988, Martin Fido sent to me a photocopy of the envelope taped to its original backing sheet and you can see tape marks on the left hand side of the backing sheet which is where the original letter was fixed at the edges. The corresponding matching tape marks are, I believe, still discernible on the original letter. On the top right hand corner of the backing sheet, (which measures 13 inches by 8 inches), is some writing which I have always found of interest. At the top is an original 2, not to be confused with the ringed 4 underneath which had been added, (possibly by National Archives staff for folio pagination purposes) by the time I came to photograph the letter in July 1996. I had often wondered what was on backing page 1, allowing both letter and envelope had been exhibited as one item which, from the original presentation, seemed to be the case? The contemporary writing, which I photographed in detail, was as follows:-


(In black ink) 25th Sept 1888

London E.C



(In red ink) See 20 A & 21 & 3

Anonys Letters

I did try in vain to try and match those references to the other letters in the file but was unsuccessful.

Not sure if that gets us anywhere beyond a clearer state of confusion!

Incidentally, again as I’m sure everybody is aware, in July 1892 both Bulling and Moore visited the Black Museum at Scotland Yard together giving the Central News Agency at New Bridge Street as their address.

Best Wishes

Keith
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  #107  
Old 02-07-2018, 09:29 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
I think it more likely, taking into account of Dear Boss, that the ear was deliberately clipped, than accidentally removed.
Why not both ears, as per Dear Boss, though? Why was the one ear left at the scene and not taken away? Why not mention anything of what happened to Eddowes in Saucy Jack postcard? She's just an oblique reference as one half of a "Double Event", but nothing else is said about her at all, still less the (partly) successful removal of one ear. Stride is at least given the honour of being mentioned in the postcard as the "first one" and the - possibly made up - reference to her screaming a bit. But Eddowes... no mention at all.
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 02-07-2018 at 09:32 AM.
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  #108  
Old 02-07-2018, 09:45 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Why not both ears, as per Dear Boss, though?
No time, according to Saucy Jack.

Quote:
Why was the one ear left at the scene and not taken away?
I can only hazard a guess (from what we know of the crime scene) that it was lost in Eddowes clothing.

Quote:
Why not mention anything of what happened to Eddowes in Saucy Jack postcard?
He may have done. It was written on a postcard and was the writer was running out of space and the ha no time to get ears could have been referring to Eddowes.
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  #109  
Old 02-07-2018, 12:03 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider View Post
And address it to Central News OFFICE rather than Agency as well!
The Athenaeum, 7 August 1875 - Advertisement:

"PRESS-SESSION 1875-6 – Advertiser, experienced in Verbatim and Abridged REPORTING, desires a LONDON ENGAGEMENT. Sessional or Annual. Well recommended – S. Central News Office, London E.C."

The Observer, 23 May 1880

"A Mallow telegram to the Central News office states…."

Croydon Guardian and Surrey County Gazette, 21 June 1882

"CENTRAL NEWS OFFICE: A Central News telegram from St Petersburg, to-day, states…."


Times, leader, 9 November 1883:

"A request sent off the same day from the Central News office for further information was answered by another telegram…."

Croydon Guardian and Surrey County Gazette, 24 July 1886:

"LATEST INTELLIGENCE. Central News Office. Friday….."

Times, Law Report, 30 November 1886:

"The papers had no right to take telegrams from the Central News Office and publish them if libellous."

Times, 22 May 1895

"The following letter [from the manager of the Times] was delivered at the Central News Office at midday on Saturday. No answer has yet been received".

...

"The manager of The Times presents his compliments to the manager of the Central News…."
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  #110  
Old 02-07-2018, 12:43 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
No time, according to Saucy Jack.
The "had not time" is used in the context of "the first one", i.e. Stride. Apropos Eddowes, if he had enough time to extract her kidney, uterus and dissect a section of colon, to say nothing of disfiguring her face and lopping off her nose, he had plenty of time to cut off both her ears.

I find it unbelievable that, in 2018, well-read students of the case are still prepared to argue that Jack the Ripper wrote Dear Boss and Saucy Jack.

I think I'll leave them to it.
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