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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > General Suspect Discussion

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  #11  
Old 11-27-2017, 11:17 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by Harry D View Post
I’m half-remembering but wasn’t there a report of a policeman following a man who fit Blotchy's description? They didn’t pursue it because at that point their focus had turned to Astrakhan? Something like that.
You can find the story in the Evening News, Nov 16th edition...a Mr Galloway.
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  #12  
Old 11-27-2017, 11:46 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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I've wondered if there was a connection between Blotchy and John Cleary, the man who visits the Herald's London office in 1889. I remember that man being described as having a boil on his face
Hi RSD,

John Arnold does fit many witness descriptions. Also, interesting in his story is the young man Joseph Isaacs, as Michael Richards has put his name forth in regard to A-Man I think. And another man named Dennis Lynch.

Joseph Isaacs was being watched as a suspect at the time. I think Wickerman found he would have been in jail in Barnet the night of the Kelly murder but it's interesting he rented a room in Paternoster Row shortly before her murder. After serving a 21 day sentence he returned to the streets on December 3rd 1888. Three days later on December 6th he is arrested again for stealing a watch. The location he was arrested is what interests me. It was stated he was arrested on Back-Horse Street, Drury Lane. From my research there was no such named street on Drury Lane. However, there is of course White-Horse Yard and Blackmoor Street which are right next to each other off Drury Lane. White-Horse Yard was the former address of John Arnold and also the recent former address of Dennis Lynch who lived there under the alias of John Leary. I believe Back-Horse Street was a mis-hearing by the reporter for Blackmoor Street. Also within this tiny little area on Drury Lane on Newcastle Street was where Dennis Lynch worked for Mr. Matley and if coincidences mean anything, another street down from these two was Feathers Court, Drury Lane. This is where Pearly Poll retreated to for a few days after the Tabram murder.

Last edited by jerryd : 11-27-2017 at 11:48 AM.
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  #13  
Old 11-27-2017, 02:44 PM
Harry D Harry D is online now
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Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
You can find the story in the Evening News, Nov 16th edition...a Mr Galloway.
That's the one.
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  #14  
Old 11-27-2017, 06:02 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
Hi RSD,

John Arnold does fit many witness descriptions. Also, interesting in his story is the young man Joseph Isaacs, as Michael Richards has put his name forth in regard to A-Man I think. And another man named Dennis Lynch.

Joseph Isaacs was being watched as a suspect at the time. I think Wickerman found he would have been in jail in Barnet the night of the Kelly murder but it's interesting he rented a room in Paternoster Row shortly before her murder. After serving a 21 day sentence he returned to the streets on December 3rd 1888. Three days later on December 6th he is arrested again for stealing a watch. The location he was arrested is what interests me. It was stated he was arrested on Back-Horse Street, Drury Lane. From my research there was no such named street on Drury Lane. However, there is of course White-Horse Yard and Blackmoor Street which are right next to each other off Drury Lane. White-Horse Yard was the former address of John Arnold and also the recent former address of Dennis Lynch who lived there under the alias of John Leary. I believe Back-Horse Street was a mis-hearing by the reporter for Blackmoor Street. Also within this tiny little area on Drury Lane on Newcastle Street was where Dennis Lynch worked for Mr. Matley and if coincidences mean anything, another street down from these two was Feathers Court, Drury Lane. This is where Pearly Poll retreated to for a few days after the Tabram murder.
damn, that's a good post, thanks jerryd. I haven't heard that one before, but then again, I need to start learning the people and not just the scenes. I also need to mark some of these posts or just start pm'ing them to myself. my first read-thru, I misread "b(l)ack horse"; it could be a suggestion for the misheard name, possibly what the locals called the junction of BLACKmoor and white-HORSE.
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  #15  
Old 11-27-2017, 06:06 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Originally Posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post
As you can probably guess, I dismiss Hutchinson's testimony that he saw Kelly in the early hours.
I don't know exactly the truth of Hutchinson's testimony, he may have lied in order to scrounge a few meals off the Police as he was escorted round Whitechapel looking for Astrakhan man, or it may be that he simply got his dates mixed up.
The Press Association:
Although no evidence was produced at the inquest as to her having left her room after one o'clock, at which time she was heard singing, the police have obtained statements from several persons who reside in Millers Court, that she was out of her house and in Dorset street between two and three o'clock. It appears almost certain that her life was taken about the last named hour.
Sheffield Evening Telegraph, Dundee Courier, Nottingham Evening Post, Morning Advertiser, Irish Times, Nov 14th 1888.

There is so much that we do not know.
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:18 AM
Chava Chava is offline
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he Press Association:
Although no evidence was produced at the inquest as to her having left her room after one o'clock, at which time she was heard singing, the police have obtained statements from several persons who reside in Millers Court, that she was out of her house and in Dorset street between two and three o'clock. It appears almost certain that her life was taken about the last named hour.
Sheffield Evening Telegraph, Dundee Courier, Nottingham Evening Post, Morning Advertiser, Irish Times, Nov 14th 1888.


However none of them were called to the inquest and we haven’t seen any of their names. The only one to go on the record is the man I always called Kudzu because he always ends up in every discussion. Hutchinson in my opinion is not a credible witness. The only other witness who goes on record to put her out and about is Caroline Maxwell who has her alive and sicking at 8.00 am the next day. I’m pretty sure those ‘other inhabitants’ would be happy to chat to a journalist for the price of a gin or three and their story would be more attractive if they had seen her that night...
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  #17  
Old 11-28-2017, 06:26 AM
Harry D Harry D is online now
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Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
The Press Association:
Although no evidence was produced at the inquest as to her having left her room after one o'clock, at which time she was heard singing, the police have obtained statements from several persons who reside in Millers Court, that she was out of her house and in Dorset street between two and three o'clock. It appears almost certain that her life was taken about the last named hour.
Sheffield Evening Telegraph, Dundee Courier, Nottingham Evening Post, Morning Advertiser, Irish Times, Nov 14th 1888.

There is so much that we do not know.
But there were also several witnesses who claim to have seen her much later that morning. How much stock can we place in this?
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  #18  
Old 11-28-2017, 06:30 AM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
Hi RSD,

John Arnold does fit many witness descriptions. Also, interesting in his story is the young man Joseph Isaacs, as Michael Richards has put his name forth in regard to A-Man I think. And another man named Dennis Lynch.
jerry, joseph isaacs is in john arnold's story?
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  #19  
Old 11-28-2017, 07:51 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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jerry, joseph isaacs is in john arnold's story?
No, he wasn't. I worded that badly. I was interested in his arrest location in regard to the Arnold story with Dennis Lynch and John (C)Leary.
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  #20  
Old 11-28-2017, 10:07 AM
barnflatwyngarde barnflatwyngarde is offline
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But there were also several witnesses who claim to have seen her much later that morning. How much stock can we place in this?
Fair point Harry, but the whole JTR case is mired in conflicting testimonies, dubious witnesses etc.

In many ways the JTR case is much like any major multiple/serial murder case in that by accepting certain specific testimonies and standpoints anyone can put forward a "plausible" theory.

The "A6 Rebooted" thread on these boards is a case in point.
People argue various points, testimonies and scientific evidence on the A6 thread, however it is surely a futile exercise, in that all the evidence points clearly to Hanratty.

We can dance round the maypole on the JTR case, however, if we employ "Occam's Razor" a lot of the so called evidence and testimonies simply vanish.

In my opinion,again using "Occam's Razor", Blotchy emerges from the mist as one of only 2 plausible suspects who could be JTR, the other being Kosminski, on the basis of the Swanson Marginalia.

If we look at the JTR case through the prism of "what is the simplest, most likely solution?", we end up with Blotchy and Kosminski.
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