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Torso Killings: JtR failed amputation. Torso killer was successful. - (2 posts)
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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Non-Canonical Victims > Torso Killings

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  #91  
Old 11-18-2016, 09:44 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Cheers JD. I've just checked "a system of legal Medecine" and there Hebbert describes the head and neck of the humerus being exposed, so looks like the "sawn" comment I picked up on is wrong.
Which means Neville and Hebbert agree after all....except for the other two issues, but you raise some good points about those. I've no idea whether the preservation process would affect hair colour, but could be a result of that. Hebbert described the hairs as dark, whereas Neville said fair, so perhaps a week out of sunlight may have made a difference? Or maybe just the lighting conditions under which each viewed the arm.
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  #92  
Old 11-19-2016, 11:46 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Joshua,

Had a few days to think it over now, and the internal hoarding, seems the answer to why it was not seen to me.

Still can't make mind up about location of arm and if it was important or not.

Am fairly convinced all parts, torso, leg and arm were disposed of at same time, there was no secondary placement of the leg for instance.
The physical evidence: state of decay, blackening of the wall all lead me to the conclusion that the torso was in place well before it was actually found.

Steve
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  #93  
Old 11-19-2016, 01:26 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Hi Steve,
Yeah, the hoarding does make it more understandable that the torso could have been overlooked for so long.

I had high hopes of a connection between the dump sites, especially when Jerry came up with the name of the timber contractor from the wharf, who also had links to Battersea. But looking at the materials used to build the NSY building, it doesn't seem so likely: the granite was from Dartmoor, shaped by prisoners;the Portland stone was from government quarries; the bricks were from Cambridgeshire and the roof tiles were slate. So not looking so promising now.
Could be a subcontractor though, so will keep looking.
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  #94  
Old 11-19-2016, 04:24 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
Hi Steve,
Yeah, the hoarding does make it more understandable that the torso could have been overlooked for so long.

I had high hopes of a connection between the dump sites, especially when Jerry came up with the name of the timber contractor from the wharf, who also had links to Battersea. But looking at the materials used to build the NSY building, it doesn't seem so likely: the granite was from Dartmoor, shaped by prisoners;the Portland stone was from government quarries; the bricks were from Cambridgeshire and the roof tiles were slate. So not looking so promising now.
Could be a subcontractor though, so will keep looking.
Joshua and Steve,

If you're looking for connections to the torso sites, the strongest connection I have found and studied a bit about, is the Metropolitan Board of Works. The BoW would have overseen the construction of New Scotland yard. The BoW had a section of land next to the arches where the Pinchin Torso was found. The BoW built the three sections of embankments on the Thames. Mishter Lusk was a member of the Board of Works (Mile End vestry IIRC). The Shelley House was built on Board of Works land. The Met BoW office was near John Arnold's roost at the Charing Cross Post Office.

In fact William Tite, (Tite Street was named after him) was a member of the Board of Works and was responsible for the construction of the Chelsea Embankment. A lot of the land where the Shelley House stands was vacant embankment land before the BoW sold to private owners, such as the Shelleys, to build upon. Melville Macnaghten was living at #9 Tite Street during the ripper murders. Other familiar names to ripperologists living on Tite Street were Oscar Wilde and Frank Miles. Oscar Wilde was friends with Marie Belloc Lowndes, author of "The Lodger". Some of this last paragraph info I got from the Ripper Code, but I don't subscribe to the Miles theory.

I know I've missed something, but that's a start.

Last edited by jerryd : 11-19-2016 at 04:29 PM.
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  #95  
Old 11-19-2016, 04:51 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
Joshua and Steve,

If you're looking for connections to the torso sites, the strongest connection I have found and studied a bit about, is the Metropolitan Board of Works. The BoW would have overseen the construction of New Scotland yard. The BoW had a section of land next to the arches where the Pinchin Torso was found. The BoW built the three sections of embankments on the Thames. Mishter Lusk was a member of the Board of Works (Mile End vestry IIRC). The Shelley House was built on Board of Works land. The Met BoW office was near John Arnold's roost at the Charing Cross Post Office.

In fact William Tite, (Tite Street was named after him) was a member of the Board of Works and was responsible for the construction of the Chelsea Embankment. A lot of the land where the Shelley House stands was vacant embankment land before the BoW sold to private owners, such as the Shelleys, to build upon. Melville Macnaghten was living at #9 Tite Street during the ripper murders. Other familiar names to ripperologists living on Tite Street were Oscar Wilde and Frank Miles. Oscar Wilde was friends with Marie Belloc Lowndes, author of "The Lodger". Some of this last paragraph info I got from the Ripper Code, but I don't subscribe to the Miles theory.

I know I've missed something, but that's a start.


thanks jerry,

somewhere to look.
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  #96  
Old 11-19-2016, 04:53 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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All good stuff! But you forgot to mention that the Board of Works was abolished shortly after the outrage in Miller's Court....
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  #97  
Old 11-19-2016, 04:55 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
All good stuff! But you forgot to mention that the Board of Works was abolished shortly after the outrage in Miller's Court....
The LCC, which replaced the BoW, took control of power in March of 1889. The Pinchin land was still referred to as BoW land. They kept the office at Spring Gardens.

Last edited by jerryd : 11-19-2016 at 05:03 PM.
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