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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Non-Canonical Victims > Torso Killings

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  #11  
Old 05-16-2016, 11:21 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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[quote=jerryd;381240]Th
Quote:
e John Arnold story has many twists and turns. He does appear unreliable because he doesn't pinpoint the actual informant. Instead he states three different people informed him of the murder, as Elamarna pointed out.
Hi Jerry,

It is not three different people - it is three descriptions for one person.

Quote:
Recent research I've done has shown that it is possible Arnold was informed by any one of the three. His news stand at the Charing Cross Post Office was close to Scotland Yard and also 'A' division's station. He was known to the police in the area. Also, directly across the street from his residence was the office of the Commissionaires. He would most likely have been familiar with their uniform. Why he changed his story about who informed him is another story. If it was a police inspector or ex- officer, he may have found himself in hot water.
Could you please elaborate a bit on your opinion about finding himself "in hot water"?

Quote:
I've also thought that he may have overheard Inspector Henry Moore relating the story of his recent visit with R. Harding Davis. Strange that Inspector Moore also predicted a murder under those same arches.
Do you happen to have a source for that prediction?

Kind regards, Pierre
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  #12  
Old 05-16-2016, 11:30 AM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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Hello Pierre.

Are you reading the first question from the pov that Munro knows who Jack the Ripper is?

I would think that was his primary concern, if another autumn of terror was going to begin.

I don,t know how to read the 2nd question. Is he asking about the ,body, or the ,there,?
Do you think the decomposition suggests that she was murdered & dismembered on the same day, or murdered one day/dismembered another day?
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  #13  
Old 05-16-2016, 11:36 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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[quote=Pierre;381286]
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Originally Posted by jerryd View Post

Hi Jerry,

It is not three different people - it is three descriptions for one person.

It's actually three different people.

Could you please elaborate a bit on your opinion about finding himself "in hot water"?

Not at this time. Sorry, Pierre.


Do you happen to have a source for that prediction?

Yes, but it is a journalists report and may or may not be reliable.

http://www.casebook.org/press_report.../18891104.html

Kind regards, Pierre
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  #14  
Old 05-16-2016, 11:50 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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[quote=jerryd;381288]Hi Jerry,

Thanks. OK, this is no prediction since the article is published later.

Regards, Pierre
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  #15  
Old 05-16-2016, 11:55 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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[quote=Pierre;381289]
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Originally Posted by jerryd View Post

Hi Jerry,

Thanks. OK, this is no prediction since the article is published later.

Regards, Pierre
Yes, published after but happened in August.

...an account of a night he spent upon the scene of the Whitechapel murders, towards the end of August...
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  #16  
Old 05-16-2016, 11:59 AM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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I saw your answer for ,,john cleary is a fool.,, jerryd. Either there was an actual john cleary, or john arnold had been passing himself as john cleary for some time.

,,another horrible murder,, would make me expect to find a c5 murder, not a torso killing.
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  #17  
Old 05-16-2016, 12:02 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Thanks. OK, this is no prediction since the article is published later.
Arnold's story wasn't a prediction either. It was a statement that a murder had already occurred.
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  #18  
Old 05-16-2016, 12:08 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert St Devil View Post
I saw your answer for ,,john cleary is a fool.,, jerryd. Either there was an actual john cleary, or john arnold had been passing himself as john cleary for some time.

,,another horrible murder,, would make me expect to find a c5 murder, not a torso killing.
John Cleary was three-fold. It was the name John Arnold signed in his statement to the New York Herald and the name of the man that Claude Mellor knew as an ex-compositor that worked for the Globe. Claude Mellor was a journalist that happened to find the thigh of Elizabeth Jackson in the garden of the Shelley estate. Mellor became alerted when he heard the name "John Cleary" involved with Back Church Lane. And finally, John Leary (no C) was the alias of Dennis Lynch.
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  #19  
Old 05-16-2016, 12:20 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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[quote=Robert St Devil;381287]
Quote:
Hello Pierre.

Are you reading the first question from the pov that Munro knows who Jack the Ripper is? I would think that was his primary concern, if another autumn of terror was going to begin.
Hi Robert,

No, he didnīt think it was the work of Jack the Ripper. So, if Munro knew who he was, he probably did not know that it was the same man who performed the Torso killings, if it was.

Quote:
I don,t know how to read the 2nd question. Is he asking about the ,body, or the ,there,?
He is asking what it means that the body part if found in a place near Berner Street and in Whitechapel. What does it mean that we find a torso in the area where Jack the Ripper killed his victims?

And I am asking the same question. And I have more questions.

1. What does it mean that Arnold says a policeman/an ex policeman / a soldier told him about a horrible murder in Backchurch Lane?

2. What does it mean that this victim is found near Berner Street in Whitechapel?

3. What does it mean that the trunk is found a year after the murder of Annie Chapman?

4. What does it mean that this victim is not murdered on the street but somewhere else and, if we believe Munro, brought to Whitechapel?

5. What does it mean that he did not prefer to do a murder in the streets Whitechapel, but to perform it somewhere else, if he was the Whitechapel murderer?

6. Or did he do it in a house somewhere in Whitechapel?

7. Munro does not seem to think so: "Why did he take the trunk to Whitechapel?" he asks. Did he know anything about the killer, since he assumes the victim was not killed in Whitechapel?

8. Or did he think that the witness statement of Arnold was correct and therefore the victim was not murdered in Whitechapel?

9. Did he actually think that the person that Arnold met was the killer?

10. And if Munro thought so and knew the killer, did Arnoldīs the description of the man match the appearance of the killer that he knew?

11. If it did, why did he say that he did not think it was the work of Jack the Ripper?

Quote:
Do you think the decomposition suggests that she was murdered & dismembered on the same day, or murdered one day/dismembered another day?
I havenīt got the faintest idea, Robert.

Kind regards, Pierre
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  #20  
Old 05-16-2016, 12:23 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
John Cleary was three-fold. It was the name John Arnold signed in his statement to the New York Herald and the name of the man that Claude Mellor knew as an ex-compositor that worked for the Globe. Claude Mellor was a journalist that happened to find the thigh of Elizabeth Jackson in the garden of the Shelley estate. Mellor became alerted when he heard the name "John Cleary" involved with Back Church Lane. And finally, John Leary (no C) was the alias of Dennis Lynch.
Just the right thing for a new theory by Fisherman.

Regard, Pierre
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