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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Police Officials and Procedures > Melville, William

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  #1  
Old 06-24-2010, 02:53 AM
Johnr Johnr is offline
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Default Why Is William Melville Listed On Casebook?

O.K., I'll bite, why is William Melville mentioned on the list of police officials on Casebook Forums?

I can see why "Johnny Upright" Thick should be there ; and Inspector Ferrett and P.C. Batten; and P.C. Large; and Sergeant Badham...
But why is poor Inspector/Superintendent William Melville sitting up in the list when he is the only policeman with his own thread with NOT ONE ENTRY TO HIS POOR NAME?

Now, anyone who has read Bernard Porter's book on the Metropolitan Police Special Branch, or Mr Clutterbuck's marvellously generous and informative thesis from the University of Portsmouth, on the same subject or Mr Butterworth's new book on the Specials, will know all about Inspector Melville...

But what did Insp. M. have to do with the JTR cases?

(Just Wonderin'...).

JOHN RUFFELS.
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  #2  
Old 06-24-2010, 04:57 AM
Phil Carter Phil Carter is offline
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Default Melville

Hello John,

I am currently looking into Melville and may hopefully be able to post something more about the man in the future. Butterworth's book is pretty revealing, and other books, such as M MI5's first Spymaster, by Andrew Cook, are also worth a read.

best wishes

Phil
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  #3  
Old 06-24-2010, 01:08 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Default Melville and Butterworth

Hello Phil. Yes, Melville, I think, will prove interesting to the case/s, given his position within SB.

Butterworth's book is worth its weight in gold (although I get the uncanny feeling he has been reading my research notes!). He has one glaring omission, and that is the absence of the Stellmacher & Kammerer business. Still, his observation about the "Ripper" is worth its weight in gold.

Cheers, young fella.
LC
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  #4  
Old 06-24-2010, 01:40 PM
Johnr Johnr is offline
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Default OOh! It Sounds Goood!

Hello Phil,
That sounds tantalising. About William Melville. I am arranging to purchase Butterworth. But Andrew Cross's book sounds engrossing too.

Oh Dear! So many IPads So Little Time!

And Hello Lyn,
Your remark " his observation about the Ripper is worth its weight in gold"!!
Yikes! And the poor many sat, unloved on the Casebook Forums without a thread to his name!
One can be tooooo secretive in my opinion.

Oh Phil,
I love Kipling's little poem "we shall peep and pry"... sounds straight out of the Special Branch's Manual Of Peeping And Prying.

Thank you both for setting forth so many promising sunlit uplands for me.

JOHN RUFFELS.
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  #5  
Old 06-24-2010, 02:27 PM
Johnr Johnr is offline
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Default Anarchist Murder Plan

The following is from The Sydney Morning Herald of Wednesday, 25 April 1894, page 7:




THE ANARCHISTS.
CONFESSION BY FARANDI.
LONDON, APBIL 23.
Farandi, the anarchist who was arrested in London, has confessed that he intended to murder Inspector William Melville, of the Criminal Investigation Department, Scotland Yard, who is responsible forFix this text tracking the anarchist's. He stated that Polti's bomb was intended for the Royal Exchange, and was to have been exploded there during business hours.


And Phil,

And the lines of Rudyard Kipling I was thinking of, as I'm sure you are aware, were:-

"We shall peep and mutter;
and the night shall bring
Watchers 'neath our window
Lest we mock the King.

He shall mark our goings,
Question whence we came,
Set his guards about us,
As in Freedom's name, "


JOHN RUFFELS.
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  #6  
Old 06-24-2010, 03:00 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Default grist

Hello John. Then permit me to explain. He refers to the WCM as "grist to the mill." And although Butterworth halts between opinions here, that phrase--in my humble point of view--is the key to understanding the whole sordid affair.

After the first 2 murders, by what appears to be a butcher experienced with a knife, the latter 3 of the C5 look like, "I'm Brian--and so's my wife." Or, if you prefer your Brother Cadfael, it looks like "One corpse too many."

So, literally, "grist to the mill" of those (as I maintain) may otherwise have killed, but in a different fashion.

Cheers.
LC
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  #7  
Old 06-26-2010, 02:08 AM
Johnr Johnr is offline
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Default Is That In Swahili?

Sorry Lynn,

Were those last two paras in Swahili?
I don't speak Swahili.

And I'm afraid I could not make the connection between para two and the last.

Particularly, I could not make the " jump to the " grist of the mill" remark.

It might be just me.

JOHN RUFFELS.
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  #8  
Old 06-26-2010, 02:24 AM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Default put another way

Hello John. Sorry, I did not intend to be murky.

I think that the killings of Polly and Annie were effectuated by the major police suspect, Isenschmid. Afterwards, those 2 killings were used by others as a pretext for their own ends.

I will tread carefully here and offer an analogy. Suppose there is a serial rapist on the loose. My wife has a tryst and, for whatever reason, discovers she is pregnant. What better story than, "Well, late one night this horrible man burst in and raped me"? (I'm sure you recall the story of David, Bathsheba, and Uriah.) Well, merely extrapolate and I think you will get my direction.

Hence, the killings were "grist to someone's mill." Put simply, it is my belief that Liz, Kate and Mary Jane would still have died, but in the case of the latter 2--in a much more paedestrian fashion. However, with the "Ripper" on the loose . . .

Hope this is more understandable.

Cheers.
LC
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  #9  
Old 06-26-2010, 03:46 AM
Phil Carter Phil Carter is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnr View Post
The following is from The Sydney Morning Herald of Wednesday, 25 April 1894, page 7:
THE ANARCHISTS.
CONFESSION BY FARANDI.
LONDON, APBIL 23.
Farandi, the anarchist who was arrested in London, has confessed that he intended to murder Inspector William Melville, of the Criminal Investigation Department, Scotland Yard, who is responsible forFix this text tracking the anarchist's. He stated that Polti's bomb was intended for the Royal Exchange, and was to have been exploded there during business hours.


And Phil,

And the lines of Rudyard Kipling I was thinking of, as I'm sure you are aware, were:-

"We shall peep and mutter;
and the night shall bring
Watchers 'neath our window
Lest we mock the King.

He shall mark our goings,
Question whence we came,
Set his guards about us,
As in Freedom's name, "


JOHN RUFFELS.
Hello John,

Melville is more of a player in this game than is thought, I believe. His rise to being head of Special Branch came at a particularly opportune time, with various key people leaving, retiring and moving on. Littlechild's Secret Dept doings are all very cagey, and yet with Melville, his handling of the Walsall bomb incident is so apparently staged that when one compares the two gentlemen's work methodology, one sees great differences.

Jenkinson, Anderson, Monro, Williamson, Littlechild and Melville created quite a set up between them over the course of a relatively short time period. And each and every one of them were all strong characters in their own right.

As far as Kipling is concerned, I admit to having a penchant for his works, and the quote you gave is so reflective of his ability to say without saying. There is always a message in his words to heed.

best wishes

Phil
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Justice for the 96 = achieved
Accountability? ....
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  #10  
Old 06-26-2010, 04:24 AM
jmenges jmenges is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Carter View Post
Butterworth's book is pretty revealing, and other books, such as M MI5's first Spymaster, by Andrew Cook, are also worth a read.
I for one do not put too much (if any) stock in Cook's assertion that Melville may have detained, or attempted to detain, Tumblety in Le Havre, and I seriously question the claim in his book that Melville's son revealed Wm. Melville's involvement in the hunt for JtR on New Zealand radio.

Cook's book is to be somewhat recommended for the other stuff on Melville, but I'd treat his Melville/Ripper section with great caution.

JM
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