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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #21  
Old 07-27-2017, 08:33 AM
Robert Robert is offline
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Don't these encyclopedia salesmen know when to give up?
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  #22  
Old 07-27-2017, 08:54 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
In the same newspaper report, a mere two sentences before that one, we find that there was a man standing in Mary Kell's doorway:

"In the doorway of the deceased's house I saw a man in a wideawake hat standing. He was not tall, but a stout-looking man"

Why haven't we heard more about this guy? He's either the most overlooked prime suspect of all time, or the Daily News screwed up Sarah Lewis's testimony. I wonder which of those options has the most chance of being true?
Apart from yer man, standing in Kelly's doorway.
Hi Sam

Quote:
In the same newspaper report, a mere two sentences before that one, we find that there was a man standing in Mary Kell's doorway:

"In the doorway of the deceased's house I saw a man in a wideawake hat standing. He was not tall, but a stout-looking man"
I wonder if hutch read this and included in his(changed) aman story as himself when HE went and talked to the press?
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #23  
Old 07-27-2017, 09:12 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Don't these encyclopedia salesmen know when to give up?
That'd be the Encyclopedia Britannia in ten bells... sorry, volumes.
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  #24  
Old 07-27-2017, 09:13 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
I wonder if hutch read this and included in his(changed) aman story as himself when HE went and talked to the press?
Hutchinson? I'd best not go there, Abby! I'm just happy to have demonstrated that the Daily News version of Sarah Lewis' testimony is garbled and unreliable.
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  #25  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:46 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Hutchinson? I'd best not go there, Abby! I'm just happy to have demonstrated that the Daily News version of Sarah Lewis' testimony is garbled and unreliable.
yes of course. LOL. thanks!
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #26  
Old 07-27-2017, 12:07 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
read it slowly wick:

its obviously a garbled press version that one paper got wrong. probably confusing it with cox statement.

Lewis official inquest testimony:

"When I went in the court I saw a man opposite the court in Dorset Street standing alone by the lodging house... another young man with a woman passed along - the man standing in the street was looking up the court as if waiting for someone to come out"


nothing about entering the court.

get over it.
Court records for inquests were recorded in long hand, the press used short hand, this is why the press versions always contain more detail than the court version.
But you've been around long enough to know this.
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  #27  
Old 07-27-2017, 12:20 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
In the same newspaper report, a mere two sentences before that one, we find that there was a man standing in Mary Kell's doorway:

"In the doorway of the deceased's house I saw a man in a wideawake hat standing. He was not tall, but a stout-looking man"

Why haven't we heard more about this guy? He's either the most overlooked prime suspect of all time, or the Daily News screwed up Sarah Lewis's testimony. I wonder which of those options has the most chance of being true?
Apart from yer man, standing in Kelly's doorway.
What did Hutchinson say?

"I went up the court and stayed there a couple of minutes, but did not see any light in the house or hear any noise."

Ignoring that too are we?


Anyhow, the topic was about constable 63 L, and Hutchinson mentioned a constable in Commercial st., who passed the end of Dorset street.

We don't know if that was 63 L, as he did not walk through Dorset street, so perhaps that was not his beat.
Why the IPN has constable 63 L saying that he heard nothing is odd as no-one in Commercial street could be expected to have heard anything from 125+ feet away. That comment would only make sense if it came from a constable who did walk through Dorset street.
So, perhaps 63 L is not the constable mentioned by Hutchinson at all.

There is no associated story in the IPN from that constable, so why his portrait is included on the cover only adds more questions than answers.
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  #28  
Old 07-27-2017, 12:22 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Court records for inquests were recorded in long hand, the press used short hand, this is why the press versions always contain more detail than the court version.
Out of interest, does anyone know how widespread the use of shorthand was among the journalists of that time? Were all of them trained in it?

(I'm used to taking detailed notes at work, but never learned shorthand. Nowadays I use a laptop, but it was pen and paper in the old days.)
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  #29  
Old 07-27-2017, 12:31 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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What did Hutchinson say?

"I went up the court and stayed there a couple of minutes, but did not see any light in the house or hear any noise."

Ignoring that too are we?
I'm not ignoring anything. In every other report, and in her inquest statement, Lewis places wideawake man in the street, opposite the lodging-house, outside the lodging-house, and looking into the court. Not in the court, and certainly not in Kelly's doorway. Let's face it, the Daily News report of Lewis's testimony is a complete crock which needs to be ditched, together with the erroneous belief that Lewis saw a couple precede her into Miller's Court.
Quote:
Anyhow, the topic was about constable 63 L, and Hutchinson mentioned a constable in Commercial st., who passed the end of Dorset street.
Indeed. I'll let you get on with it.
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  #30  
Old 07-27-2017, 12:37 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Default Constable 63L

In Police Orders of 26 March 1889, P.C. 63L is stated to be Constable Rouse (who was then on the sick list).

A little bit of digging, shows that this was Henry Rouse who joined the Met Police in L Division on 14 August 1882, with warrant number 67055, and resigned on 11 May 1889. Police Orders for 11 May 1889 give his conduct for his certificate as "Very Good".
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