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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Lechmere/Cross, Charles

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  #941  
Old 01-09-2019, 09:28 AM
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[color="Red"]I have not "interpreted" what he said, I have stated it the way he said it. When we spoke about how Lechmere could have stayed put, I said that it was a common thing among those studying the case to think that he would have run, and Griffiths replied by saying that no, he would never have run given the risks it would have involved.
Once again, Fish, I would ask you how this opinion of Griffiths equates to your own position, that Lechmere would not have run because if he was the killer he must have been a non-panicking psychopath?

Did you only ask Griffiths about Lechmere 'running' from the scene? Or did you also ask if he could not simply have 'walked' away, swiftly but calmly, without involving much risk at all, if any?

Griffiths seemed to be saying the risks of running from the scene would have scared Lechmere into staying put instead, to bluff his way out. Or do you think he meant something else entirely?

Love,

Caz
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  #942  
Old 01-09-2019, 09:59 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Once again, Fish, I would ask you how this opinion of Griffiths equates to your own position, that Lechmere would not have run because if he was the killer he must have been a non-panicking psychopath?

Did you only ask Griffiths about Lechmere 'running' from the scene? Or did you also ask if he could not simply have 'walked' away, swiftly but calmly, without involving much risk at all, if any?

Griffiths seemed to be saying the risks of running from the scene would have scared Lechmere into staying put instead, to bluff his way out. Or do you think he meant something else entirely?

Love,

Caz
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Hi Caz
I suspect Griffiths was among those who were not given the full facts, and surmise that what he was given was the belief that Lechmere was actually standing crouching over the body when Paul came along and came upon him, thus giving him no time to run, that scenario would be more in line with trying to interpret why Griffith would make the statement he did.

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  #943  
Old 01-10-2019, 06:52 AM
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That makes sense, Trev. I can't accept that someone like Griffiths would have used a word like 'never', when asked if a serial killer in Lechmere's position would have legged it, unless he was given a misleading impression of that position, which led him to think the risks involved would have been greater than staying there, bloody knife on him, not having the foggiest idea who was approaching or how they might react to the murder scene, and nearly decapitated victim.

Nor can I reconcile the reasons Fish has given for a psychopathic Lechmere choosing to hang around to polish up his bluffing skills, with Griffith's 'adamant' view that the only other option - to scarper - was so risky that a serial killer would 'never' have taken it.

Love,

Caz
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  #944  
Old 01-10-2019, 06:57 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Agreed, Caz. Good call, Trevor.
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  #945  
Old 01-10-2019, 07:00 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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I guess Griffiths was a total imbecile who could only go with "what he was given" and never learned anything on his own about the case.
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  #946  
Old 01-10-2019, 07:09 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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I guess Griffiths was a total imbecile who could only go with "what he was given" and never learned anything on his own about the case.
Sticking to your briefing material doesn't imply imbecility.
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  #947  
Old 01-10-2019, 07:38 AM
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If Lechmere was the killer, then we have an extremely quickly conceived solution to the problem of passing the police, just as we have him deliberately choosing to stay put at the murder site and bluff his way out. No other character than a psychopath would be able to pull that off - or even choose to try it.

An interesting factor about the full-blown psychopath Ted Bundy is how he took care of his own defence in court, putting on quite a show, impressing the judge even.
THAT is how a psychopath/narcissist works, that is the kind of challenge that makes him tick.

Compare, if you will, how Lechmere freely searched out the police and inquest. Then try and add two and two, Trevor.

... and a Happy New Year too!
And yet, Fish, according to you, Griffiths was adamant that a serial killer in Lechmere's position would have stayed put because of the risks involved in trying to leg it. He must have seen staying put as the less risky option - why is still not clear.

This is not how you see it though. The risk factor could have had nothing to do with it, if it was the psychopath in Lechmere which tempted him into staying put, relishing the challenge involved in doing so - the kind that made him tick. Only a psychopath could have pulled it off, you say; only a psychopath would even have chosen to try it. Other types of killer need not apply. They would never have attempted it. So what could they have done instead? According to Griffiths, they would never have legged it either - too risky.

Do you not see how incompatible Griffith's position is with your own?

Love,

Caz
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  #948  
Old 01-10-2019, 07:41 AM
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I guess Griffiths was a total imbecile who could only go with "what he was given" and never learned anything on his own about the case.
You might think that, Abby. I could not possibly comment.

Love,

Frances Urquhart
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Old 01-10-2019, 07:44 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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You might think that, Abby. I could not possibly comment.

Love,

Frances Urquhart
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lol.ok ok!
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  #950  
Old 01-10-2019, 09:11 AM
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...I believe that a psychopath may well actively choose bluffing over running even if there is ample time to run...

...I think there is a VERY good reason to think they would choose a bluff - psychopathy and narcissism in combination, making the perp somebody who really wants to "show off".
Griffiths apparently believes that Lechmere would 'never' have run if he was the killer, because of the risks involved - not because he would have preferred the challenge of bluffing or really wanted to show off.

Griffiths apparently believes that Lechmere would have had no time to get away safely, and therefore would never have tried. Do you agree with him or not, Fish?

Quote:
...it would seem that a seasoned ex-murder squad leader agrees with me on this score... Griffiths said that he would never have run, as you know.
But you have both given very different reasons for believing this! Griffiths's killer would have known it was too risky to run; yours would not have run because he had no panic response and positively lapped up the challenge involved in staying.

Quote:
Once again, we should not mistake psychopaths for ordinary people, with ordinary nerves and ordinary flight reflexes.
So do you believe Lechmere's abnormal flight reflexes dictated his decision to stay, even though Griffiths was adamant that the risks involved in fleeing would have dictated that decision?

Quote:
There is a magical formula to which all killers, psychopaths as well as non-psychopaths will answer?
Apparently Griffiths thinks so, if he really did say that a killer in Lechmere's position would 'never' have risked running.

Love,

Caz
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