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  #41  
Old 04-19-2018, 05:01 AM
Steadmund Brand Steadmund Brand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger View Post
A very late response, for which I apologize.

The idea that the earth is flat is so readily disprovable, by so many avenues of approach, as to be ludicrous. So far as "Intelligent Design", I hold a more open mind on that. Darwin's observation that evolution can, through random mutations, produce an organism more fit to survive those conditions that produced it, should be understandable and obvious to anyone. We have examples of it happening all around us. The Salt and Pepper Moth is the classic case, but one reads constantly in the news these days about bacteria developing resistance to antibiotics. That's Darwinian selection at work, and on a humanly observable time scale, since bacteria reproduce so fast.

Can Darwinian selection account for all the results of evolution, though? I don't think that it can. Were Darwinian selection all that shaped us, then we should be eminently suited to survive, but that's ALL that we should be. Factors that did not affect one's likelihood of survival might arise, and breed true among a certain percentage of the population, just as, for instance, some people find aspirin intolerably bitter, and some cannot taste it. The mutation seems to have no effect on survival, so as one might expect from Darwin, it's just out there, neither favoured nor disfavoured. Some people have it, and some don't.

There are, however, some strong traits of humans that don't seem to really be tied to any kind of Darwinian evolutionary pressure. Music, for instance. Humans pretty much universally have an appreciation for music, to the extent that people who can't enjoy music are pitied as a type of cripple. That seems to be a constant in every human culture, however much they may differ otherwise. If there are cultures to whom music is incomprehensible, I have not heard of them. Moreover, some studies seem to show an awareness of, and appreciation for, music among other species. I have a very hard time believing that Darwinian natural selection can account for that.
Actually...appreciation of music CAN be argued is a form (or result of) of natural selection...those from early species who couldn't understand the beating of a tree or drum was a warning sign that a tiger was about to come into the village were eaten by the tiger (that is a very VERY basic example... would take a term paper to go into great detail and that isn't what this is about), also sounds (or music if you will) was and is a way for some species to attract.. and those that don't understand it tend to die off...so in short.. sound or music is not only something for pleasure, but was (and to some extent still is) a form or communication...totally in line with natural selection

Steadmund Brand
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  #42  
Old 04-19-2018, 05:46 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Agreed, Steadmund
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  #43  
Old 04-25-2018, 12:24 PM
Steadmund Brand Steadmund Brand is offline
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Thanks Sam,

I always get upset that people who argue against evolution don't understand the actual concept of natural selection (no Ginger, I don't mean you... you were not against the idea, just had questions.. that is fine!! I mean those that refuse to let it be taught and say things like " if we came from monkeys why aren't monkeys still having human babies"...... I swear I want to scream each and every time they think they "gotcha" with that moronic question....they don't understand natural selection or even the basics of evolution... or the fact that we came from a common ancestor etc.. yet they keep repeating that garbage like.. if it ask it a million times maybe eventually I'll be right...no matter it gets explained and shot down EVERY TIME THEY SAY IT!!!)

ok sorry.. just had to vent

Steadmund Brand
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  #44  
Old 04-25-2018, 12:47 PM
barnflatwyngarde barnflatwyngarde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steadmund Brand View Post
Thanks Sam,

I always get upset that people who argue against evolution don't understand the actual concept of natural selection (no Ginger, I don't mean you... you were not against the idea, just had questions.. that is fine!! I mean those that refuse to let it be taught and say things like " if we came from monkeys why aren't monkeys still having human babies"...... I swear I want to scream each and every time they think they "gotcha" with that moronic question....they don't understand natural selection or even the basics of evolution... or the fact that we came from a common ancestor etc.. yet they keep repeating that garbage like.. if it ask it a million times maybe eventually I'll be right...no matter it gets explained and shot down EVERY TIME THEY SAY IT!!!)

ok sorry.. just had to vent

Steadmund Brand
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  #45  
Old 04-25-2018, 03:54 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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Hi Steadmund,

I agree. What annoys the hell out of me is when people (mostly religious types) who probably have a high school science education at best question Ph.D's from leading universities around the world and are condescending as hell towards them. Especially when every question they have can be answered with a quick google search.

c.d.
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  #46  
Old 04-26-2018, 05:25 AM
Steadmund Brand Steadmund Brand is offline
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The religious types are far and away the worst offenders...because they only hear what they want to hear....like that famous Kirk Cameron video claiming the banana is the proof of god....how the shape is made for our hands blah blah blah.. and the fact that the" modern banana" is actually MAN MADE THRU HUMAN CULTIVATION!!!! yet no matter how many times this is pointed out and explained... they still go back to the "God made the banana perfect for humans" as though the explanation was never given.. it's very selective hearing... I have actually had this argument in person and it ended with the person saying.." well we just have to agree we have different theories on this" and I said NO WE DO NOT!!!! I HAVE FACTS AND PROOF AND HAVE SHOWN YOU THIS AND YOUR COUNTER ARGUMENTS IS " NO IT'S NOT" LIKE IT"S A FRIGGIN MONTY PYTHON SKETCH ... that is not "different theories" that is willing ignorance on their part... now that pisses me off!!! that is NOT faith... that is absolute intentional ignorance...and they think they have the right to teach this garbage along side science.....

Again.. Sorry... this is something I really have strong feelings about, as you can see,

Steadmund Brand
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  #47  
Old 04-26-2018, 03:24 PM
martin wilson martin wilson is offline
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Monkeys are not unevolved humans. They are fully evolved monkeys.
Like great white sharks, giraffes, ardvaarks, and anything else that exists. They have evolved to survive in their environment and pass on their genes.
Assuming someone starts at about age four in nursery and leaves school at 16, it requires twelve years to change their minds as they obviously weren't paying attention the first time around.
Who's got the time?
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  #48  
Old 04-26-2018, 03:45 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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I listened to "The Atheist Experience" show today. A woman called in and said that atheists can't interpret the Bible correctly because they are not filled with the Holy Spirit. She went on to say that if people simply followed all the instructions that God has laid out in the Bible that they will go to heaven. The host asked her how many witches she had killed. Of course she had no idea what he was talking about despite her claim that she read her Bible all the time. She said God would never instruct people to do that. When the Bible passage was read to her she was completely dumbfounded and after much bobbing and weaving said that that was open to interpretation.

That always reminds me of the old joke. What is the difference between an atheist and a Christian? The atheist has read the Bible.

c.d.
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  #49  
Old 04-26-2018, 06:31 PM
Ginger Ginger is offline
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I believe that the majority opinion among biblical scholars currently is that "poisoner" would be a better translation than "witch". James I & VI was, for whatever reason, utterly obsessed with witches.
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  #50  
Old 04-27-2018, 06:49 AM
Svensson Svensson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steadmund Brand View Post
T...like that famous Kirk Cameron video claiming the banana is the proof of god....how the shape is made for our hands blah blah blah..
yes, I watched that video. It's wrong on so many levels.

Gotta be seen to be believed....
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