Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Witnesses: 36 Berner Street............... - by Robert 14 minutes ago.
Lechmere/Cross, Charles: So if you live in Bethnal Green, you won´t kill in Whitechapel? - by Fisherman 5 hours ago.
Witnesses: Kennedy and Lewis - by Simon Wood 7 hours ago.
Witnesses: Kennedy and Lewis - by Wickerman 10 hours ago.
Witnesses: 36 Berner Street............... - by MrBarnett 10 hours ago.
Witnesses: Kennedy and Lewis - by packers stem 12 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Witnesses: 36 Berner Street............... - (17 posts)
Witnesses: Kennedy and Lewis - (4 posts)
Hutchinson, George: Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson? - (4 posts)
Non-Fiction: "Ripperland" by Andrew Firth - (4 posts)
Mary Jane Kelly: Did Mary Kelly meet the Bethnal Green Botherer? - (2 posts)
Lechmere/Cross, Charles: So if you live in Bethnal Green, you won´t kill in Whitechapel? - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-01-2018, 04:41 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 11,458
Default Antisemitism as a diversionary tactic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
Right after the murder of Nichols, you had a suspect called 'Leather Apron' who happened to also be Jewish.
Yes, and Mrs Long labelled her suspect as foreign-looking in the Chapman case, but neither of these were the result of a deliberate strategy by JTR; it is more indicative of the extent to which incomers are treated with suspicion by the indigenous population. That's kind of what people do.

If JTR really wanted to milk this phenomenon to his advantage, then why do we only see apparent antisemitic clues (if Jack so intended them to be) in only two of the murders, and those both on the same night? Even there, the Jewish/anti-Jewish connections may be tenuous at best, given that (a) the murders happened in a part of London with a high Jewish/immigrant population; and (b) the degree of antisemitic/anti-immigrant feeling amongst the "natives" was likely to be correspondingly high.

In any case, whilst there were large numbers of Jews living in the area, there were still vastly more who weren't. I hardly think that JTR thought he'd be singled out of hundreds of thousands of gentiles unless he took pains to deflect the blame elsewhere. On the contrary, he could have saved himself a fair bit of hassle by simply hiding in the crowd.

Against that backdrop, I don't find the idea that the Ripper exploited antisemitism particularly compelling at all.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-01-2018, 05:29 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 2,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Yes, and Mrs Long labelled her suspect as foreign-looking in the Chapman case, but neither of these were the result of a deliberate strategy by JTR; it is more indicative of the extent to which incomers are treated with suspicion by the indigenous population. That's kind of what people do.

If JTR really wanted to milk this phenomenon to his advantage, then why do we only see apparent antisemitic clues (if Jack so intended them to be) in only two of the murders, and those both on the same night? Even there, the Jewish/anti-Jewish connections may be tenuous at best, given that (a) the murders happened in a part of London with a high Jewish/immigrant population; and (b) the degree of antisemitic/anti-immigrant feeling amongst the "natives" was likely to be correspondingly high.

In any case, whilst there were large numbers of Jews living in the area, there were still vastly more who weren't. I hardly think that JTR thought he'd be singled out of hundreds of thousands of gentiles unless he took pains to deflect the blame elsewhere. On the contrary, he could have saved himself a fair bit of hassle by simply hiding in the crowd.

Against that backdrop, I don't find the idea that the Ripper exploited antisemitism particularly compelling at all.
Hi Gareth

The Double Event may have been an anti-semitic Ripper`s first chance at some anti-semitism.

As you say, nothing with Nichols and Chapman, although these two were within a week of another, and after the Chapman murder there was a lot of unrest amongst the locals, so the Double Event may have been the first instance for an antisemitic Ripper to build on the atmosphere.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-01-2018, 05:39 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 11,458
Default

Thanks, Jon

My issue with that is that there are little, or no, Jewish connections adhering to the next murder after the Double Event. Did he abandon this putative antisemitism-deflection ploy after Mitre Square, or was it never really there in the first place?

Personally, I see the DE as the only time where the killer himself could be conjectured to have demonstrated a wilful attempt to implicate the Jews - and, given the demographics, I'd even question that.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-01-2018, 05:56 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 2,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
My issue with that is that there are little, or no, Jewish connections adhering to the next murder after the Double Event. Did he abandon this putative antisemitism-deflection ploy after Mitre Square, or was it never really there in the first place?
I do think there`s a good argument to be made for a Ripper taking advantage of the climate.

After Nichols the press were all about Leather Apron
After Chapman there was some unrest amongst the locals
After DE the Ripper writes GSG
After Kelly, Hutchinson see`s man of Jewish appearance

But yes, I agree that the DE is the only time the Ripper himself may have shown anti-semitism.



Quote:
Personally, I see the DE as the only time where the killer himself could be conjectured to have demonstrated a wilful attempt to implicate the Jews - and, given the demographics, I'd even question that.
We have Hutchinson`s sighting of man with Jewish appearance ?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-01-2018, 06:03 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 11,458
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
We have Hutchinson`s sighting of man with Jewish appearance ?
Indeed, but what a witness says about a suspect is hardly within the latter's gift; likewise with Mrs Long and her "foreigner".
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-01-2018, 06:10 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 2,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Indeed, but what a witness says about a suspect is hardly within the latter's gift; likewise with Mrs Long and her "foreigner".
Unless, Hutchinson`s man with Jewish Appearance was the Ripper.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-01-2018, 06:18 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 11,458
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
Unless, Hutchinson`s man with Jewish Appearance was the Ripper.
Quite so, but then we have a killer with a Jewish appearance, not a gentile Ripper deliberately deflecting blame onto the Jews.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-01-2018, 06:22 AM
Darryl Kenyon Darryl Kenyon is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 343
Default

Unless you are in the Hutch is JTR camp then there is no antisemitism at all in Mary's murder. The court was well known to belong to a Gentile [Mcarthys rents], nor was there any writing on the wall similar to the Goulston Graffiti, yet the killer had plenty of time to leave a message. Finally, after the Dear Boss and the free for all in the letters department. Not one was sent to anyone with, say Mary's heart [to prove it was from the killer], with a note implicating the Jewes. Either the killer changed tact or it was just coincidence what happened on the previous murders, or just maybe he was a Jew.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-01-2018, 06:48 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,074
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
I do think there`s a good argument to be made for a Ripper taking advantage of the climate.

After Nichols the press were all about Leather Apron
After Chapman there was some unrest amongst the locals
After DE the Ripper writes GSG
After Kelly, Hutchinson see`s man of Jewish appearance

But yes, I agree that the DE is the only time the Ripper himself may have shown anti-semitism.





We have Hutchinson`s sighting of man with Jewish appearance ?
Hi Jon
I do find it rather odd that the only two pieces of evidence that directly implicates jews is the GSG, coming on the heels of BS man shouting Lipski, and then with Kelly murder with Hutchs Aman being jewish.

even if hutch wasn't the ripper he may have used the events surrounding the DE to bolster his fake Aman for his 15 minutes of fame.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-01-2018, 06:53 AM
Batman Batman is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,916
Default

Right after the murder of Nichols, you had a suspect called 'Leather Apron' who happened to also be Jewish. Therein is the start of the view that JtR was a Jew although there was already strong anti-semitic views being held at the time.

So prior to the JtR murders JtR doesn't appear to be using the anti-semitic hysteria to his advantage because it wasn't associated until Pizer.

Then he had cover to go about as a gentile, meets with Chapman.

When Pizer is cleared he then uses tries to put the blame back on the Jews again, first by attacking Stride near a Jewish socialist club, shouting Lipski when seen, in the hope that someone might associate this with a Jew.

Then he fails to get his emotional satisfaction (no signature) and goes off to do his signature on someone else and follows this up by throwing her bloody apron piece into a Jewish market sector with some anti-semitic graffiti next to it.

Again, people hear about this and suspect a Jew, so off he goes to Kelly as a gentile, following the path of Chapman again.

It isn't hard to figure out that JtR was using anti-Semitic hysteria as a cover for himself.

Which really deals a stake to the heart of ideas that JtR was Jew. Either he was a gentile or a Jew with a serious identity crisis.

Heck even many of the investigators ended up believing he was Jew.

So to that end, JtR was successful. Which seems obvious because he wasn't caught.

Also let's address the Jewish connections to the Stride and Eddowes murders that must be coincidental.
  • Stride murdered next to a Jewish social club.
  • The attacker is heard shouting LIPSKI.
  • Eddowes bloody apron part is dumped in Goulston St., in a Jewish market spot.
  • Above it is Graffiti that is anti-Semitic... which apparently the Jews never saw to rub out at the time.

Remove Lipski and the Graffiti and it still has anti-semitic themes.
  • Jewish social club alley the scene of a murder.
  • Bloody apron dumped in Jewish market quarters.

Seems JtR was freely able to stalk Chapman with the arrest of Piser but when Piser was basically exonerated JtR probably wasn't as free as the hysteria had died down, meaning a gentile was back on the cards again.

Furthermore, if the antisemitism is just a big coincidence because of high frequencies, then one would expect there to have been more of it... and not just the Whitechapel murders, but all murders around London. Yet it is strangely absent in the other Whitechapel murders except when we talk about JtR.
__________________
Bona fide canonical and then some.

Last edited by Batman : 10-01-2018 at 06:55 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.