Mitre Sq., arranged meeting scenarios

[Trevor Marriott]

I think investigators would have at the very least gone into those pubs/clubs to ask if such a woman had been seen or served. So I think we can say she wasn't in one, but possibly outside of one or using its doorway, but unseen by anybody, just like JtR was, until Lewende sees them.

If she was loitering for the purpose of prostitution, being unseen would not have been very productive would it ?

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Abby Normal]

Or maybe she lost her nose for being one.

The Star
WEDNESDAY, 3 OCTOBER, 1888

The services of "noses" - that is to say, people who are hand in glove with persons of indifferent character, are frequently called into play, and they are deputed to go to the low lodging-houses and other places that are the resort of low characters, and keep their eyes and ears open for anything likely to give a clue to the individual or individuals wanted. Women often act as "noses."

Hi Jerry!
interesting.

Batman!-Listen to this man-I believe Jerry has many similar ideas to yours and is an encyclopedia of knowledge on the case.

[Batman]

Hi Jerry!
interesting.

Batman!-Listen to this man-I believe Jerry has many similar ideas to yours and is an encyclopedia of knowledge on the case.

I am certainly thinking about it.

[Observer]

Good point. This requires an explanation.

Why was she going that way when she said she would in trouble for not being at home?

Even wikipedia says...

instead of turning right to take the shortest route to her home in Flower and Dean Street, she turned left towards Aldgate

Damn if that doesn't actually give more credence to this 'arranged meeting' idea.

Eddowes didn't have a home. She was living in Doss Houses at the time. Her partner John Kelly was tucked up in one as she was released from Bishopsgate nick. She had no money, so had no chance of being admitted to the Doss House Kelly was using that night. The remarlk "I'll get a fine hiding when I get home" was purely a bit of banter between her and the releasing officer

[Batman]

Eddowes didn't have a home. She was living in Doss Houses at the time. Her partner John Kelly was tucked up in one as she was released from Bishopsgate nick. She had no money, so had no chance of being admitted to the Doss House Kelly was using that night. The remarlk "I'll get a fine hiding when I get home" was purely a bit of banter between her and the releasing officer

Yet that Banter matches up with Kelly's account of his time spent with Eddowes before she was murdered and what they discussed.

[Sam Flynn]

Yet that Banter matches up with Kelly's account of his time spent with Eddowes before she was murdered and what they discussed.

Yet she had no home to go to.

[Observer]

Yet that Banter matches up with Kelly's account of his time spent with Eddowes before she was murdered and what they discussed.

That's irrelevant. I'm looking at the facts. Eddowes had nowhere to go, she had no money, and despite what the deputy of the doss house in question said after the fact, if she had turned up at the doss house it would have been no money no entry. It's clear to me that the conversation she had with the releasing officer was tongue in cheek banter.

[Batman]

That's irrelevant. I'm looking at the facts. Eddowes had nowhere to go, she had no money, and despite what the deputy of the doss house in question said after the fact, if she had turned up at the doss house it would have been no money no entry. It's clear to me that the conversation she had with the releasing officer was tongue in cheek banter.

So an entire account of where she was supposed to be that day and where she was supposed to go in the evening, is irrelevant?

How did she know Kelly hadn't gotten enough money for both their beds and paid ahead?

Are you suggesting she wouldn't even try?

Also to go soliciting only moments out the door from the drunk tank with officers all around is probably the easiest way she could have ended up in even worse trouble... like going down a dark alley with Jack the Ripper.

Do you actually believe she met a complete stranger who wooed her that fast into getting her into that area at that time of night after the conversations she had about the ripper with Kelly?

[Batman]

There is so much missing time involved that Eddowes could even have doubled back after leaving the station and tried to make her way back to the lodging house and get rejected and STILL be back in time in Mitre Sq., with 10 minutes to spare before Lewende sees her.

The question still remains. Why that way?

[jerryd]

Hi Jerry!
interesting.

Batman!-Listen to this man-I believe Jerry has many similar ideas to yours and is an encyclopedia of knowledge on the case.

Thanks Ab.

Not too sure about your last words but I have researched a lot of different topics. A police suspect has always been an interest of mine.

[Sam Flynn]

Eddowes wasn't a clockwork toy, so the idea that she should have maintained a regular, inexorable pace on leaving the cells is rather unlikely. Like most of us in her situation, she'd no doubt have paused periodically to take stock of her situation, to decide what she was going to do. She might have wandered aimlessly for a while. She might have gone for a pee in a doorway. As already noted, theres a good chance she'd sought shelter from a shower of rain. All kinds of mundane possibilities might easily account for the "missing" time, without positing anything complicated. Twenty or so minutes is nothing.

[Batman]

Eddowes wasn't a clockwork toy, so the idea that she should have maintained a regular, inexorable pace on leaving the cells is rather unlikely. Like most of us in her situation, she'd no doubt have paused periodically to take stock of her situation, to decide what she was going to do. She might have wandered aimlessly for a while. She might have gone for a pee in a doorway. As already noted, theres a good chance she'd sought shelter from a shower of rain. All kinds of mundane possibilities might easily account for the "missing" time, without positing anything complicated. Twenty or so minutes is nothing.

Yeah but no one saw her for this time period. Like at all. Which almost rules her out going to flower & dean, despite it being possible to go there and back and with 10 min to spare before being seen by Lewende. Yet apparently, he is the only one to see her in all that time.

[Busy Beaver]

I suppose if you do look at the circumstances, it really does seem odd that Kate just decides on a complete "Whim" to turn left and walk towards Mitre Square, when the quickest way home was turning to the right.

She probably did have no money, so going back to Kelly would have been the better choice, unless he never had any money for a bed at the doss house either, so might not even be there. Kate could have been hoping to meet up with someone, but they weren't there when she turned up. I wonder if rather than propositioning this man she met at Church Passage, she talked to him and then they both walked into Mitre Square, and she was expecting to come out somewhere at the other end, but the man who she met was of course the Ripper and he pulls her into the dark corner where he proceeds to murder her. So she is completely of guard. After all Kate was probably a little tired and despondent over what happened and could have easily walked elsewhere just to clear her head. (if one that sort of thing in 1888).

[Sam Flynn]

Yeah but no one saw her for this time period. Like at all. Which almost rules her out going to flower & dean, despite it being possible to go there and back and with 10 min to spare before being seen by Lewende

We don't know that nobody else saw her, only that there's nothing in the press to that effect; she could have passed more than one person without their taking much notice of her.

Besides, the streets don't seem to have been teeming with people, which is hardly surprising given the late hour, the rain an' all. Also - and I'll be happy to be enlightened on this - I don't think that the area around the City boundary was as populous as Whitechapel/Spitalfields.

Yet apparently, [Lawende] is the only one to see her in all that time.

One of three. And, with that in mind, a simple thought experiment shows that, if he and his friends had left separately, chances are we'd have had three separate sightings, not one sighting with three witnesses.

[Batman]

We don't know that nobody else saw her, only that there's nothing in the press to that effect; she could have passed more than one person without their taking much notice of her.

Yet not even one PC from the time she left the drunk tank saw her for those 40 minutes. If she somehow went to flower & dean then she must have dodged them all and coming back. Even with the walk to Mitre Sq., not a single officer or plain-clothes reported seeing her.