Tumblety and Ireland

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Article on Tumblety's Irish origins in Anglo-Celt newspaper

Article on Tumblety's Irish origins in Anglo-Celt newspaper:

http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup/articles/2013/10/26/4018165-jack-the-rippers-cavan-origins/

I didn't include all my info in the piece as I'm hoping to write something more in depth for Ripperologist magazine (if they will publish it).

[mklhawley]

Outstanding research Siobhan! This clarifies many issues.

Sincerely,
Mike

[Lechmere]

A few things…

Was Tumblety arrested for Gross Indecency in virtually every large town or city he visited?
This is surely something of an exaggeration.

What evidence is there that Tumblety was living in Whitechapel in 1888?

Surely rather than being arrested in late November, Tumblety was arrested on 7th November 1888.

What Scotland Yard officer followed Tumblety to the US?
Surely the hypothesis is that Andrews went to Canada to investigate Tumblety’s background, and even this claim is based on conjecture.

Surely Mrs McNamara’s house was at 79 East Tenth Street, not in Rochester.

Surely it wasn’t a year, after the dust had settled, before Tumblety gave an interview to the New York World about the Whitechapel Murders.
It was on 29th January 1889 – less than two months after he arrived back in New York.
In this interview Tumblety didn’t claim he had been living in Whitechapel nor that he dressed to blend in with the locals.

I don’t know that it can be said that Scotland Yard ‘gradually’ lost interest in Tumblety.
I think the only firm evidence that they had any interest in him relates to a couple of telegrams from Anderson in late November 1888. If it is hypothesised that Andrews’ visit to Canada related to Tumblety in some way, then Scotland Yard’s interest cannot be shown to have extended beyond late December 1888.

The two cheap rings in Tumblety’s possession at his death, that were valued at 3 dollars, were described as ‘set rings’ – i.e. with stones.
The two rings taken from Annie Chapman were plain brass rings.

[mklhawley]

Lechmere,

Only those in denial would believe Tumblety wasn't in Whitechapel. To say Andrews went to Canada for Tumblety is conjecture means you never read Roger Palmer's articles. Again denial. You clearly haven't read my article on Tumblety's rings. Your denial is breathtaking.

I hope you are writing a book on Tumblety. I plan on being the first to do a book review. You'll love it. It'll be based upon evidence, and not cherry picking.

[mklhawley]

So Siobhan discovers strong evidence into where Francis Tumblety came from, and Lechmere tries to hijack the thread. Good job Lechmere.

[Scott Nelson]

Surely Mrs McNamara’s house was at 79 East Tenth Street, not in Rochester

Yes, I don't think anybody implied otherwise.

[Scott Nelson]

"His bolt-hole in Rochester was a guest house run by a Mrs McNamara, who did her best to mislead the police and to keep them “off the scent”.

Sorry Ed, you were correct. But I'm sure it was just a slight oversight, and in any case pretty meaningless to the overall account of the Tumblety case.

[Lechmere]

Yes Scott
I found the article interesting. I think Tumblety is a fascinating character and the details of his birth add to the picture.
But there were quite a few errors in the article.
I did wonder whether or not to point them out as it might seem somewhat ungallant.

Mike
I addressed issues in the newspaper article - that surely isn't derailing the thread?

The claim isn't whether or not Tumblety was ever in Whitechapel, it is whether he lived in Whitechapel.
Incidentally the only reason we can suppose Tumblety visited Whitechapel is because he said so himself and I would suggest that his word isn't to be relied upon.
I have read Roger Palmer's articles and remain unconvinced. In any case even if I was persuaded it is conjecture.

I have read your 'rings' article. That is when it first struck me that the ring business was irrelevant, as Tumblety's imitation set rings would have had fake diamonds or some other stone set in them, while Chapman's were plain brass - although one (the keeper) may have had a pattern in it. This issue isn't addressed in your article.

I have no intention of writing a book about Tumblety - don't believe all the sniping ad hominem remarks you read.

[mklhawley]

Yes Scott
I found the article interesting. I think Tumblety is a fascinating character and the details of his birth add to the picture.
But there were quite a few errors in the article.
I did wonder whether or not to point them out as it might seem somewhat ungallant.

Mike
I addressed issues in the newspaper article - that surely isn't derailing the thread?

The claim isn't whether or not Tumblety was ever in Whitechapel, it is whether he lived in Whitechapel.
Incidentally the only reason we can suppose Tumblety visited Whitechapel is because he said so himself and I would suggest that his word isn't to be relied upon.
I have read Roger Palmer's articles and remain unconvinced. In any case even if I was persuaded it is conjecture.

I have read your 'rings' article. That is when it first struck me that the ring business was irrelevant, as Tumblety's imitation set rings would have had fake diamonds or some other stone set in them, while Chapman's were plain brass - although one (the keeper) may have had a pattern in it. This issue isn't addressed in your article.

I have no intention of writing a book about Tumblety - don't believe all the sniping ad hominem remarks you read.

Ed, Dan, Lechmere, or whoever you want to be called,

This thread is on Tumblety and Ireland. I, and everyone else, remain unconvinced with your cherry picking. Picking at side issues is purposely derailing Siobhan's discoveries. So, I dare you to write an article on your 'Tumblety was the source of the information, absence of evidence is evidence of absence' theories. I have purposely withheld information, because I could see you don't listen, but merely tout.

Mike

[Lechmere]

Dan? Dan? Surely not the dirty old man?

Mike
I don't know why you are accusing me of cherry picking.
What am I touting?
I have no wish to derail the discovery of Tumblety's origins.
However I am a bit pernickety and there were undoubted errors in the article.
I think it would be better if things can be discussed in a civilised and less bad tempered fashion.

There are other issues I will raise on the 'Two reasons' thread. I hadn't added to that thread as I was giving you time to answer the points already made there, as you said you were called away by other matters.

[mklhawley]

Dan? Dan? Surely not the dirty old man?

Mike
I don't know why you are accusing me of cherry picking.
What am I touting?
I have no wish to derail the discovery of Tumblety's origins.
However I am a bit pernickety and there were undoubted errors in the article.
I think it would be better if things can be discussed in a civilised and less bad tempered fashion.

There are other issues I will raise on the 'Two reasons' thread. I hadn't added to that thread as I was giving you time to answer the points already made there, as you said you were called away by other matters.

Of course you don't know why. That's the central point in accommodation v. assimilation.

So, if you don't want to derail, then stop posting. I know your other issues, and I have new stuff, but you're not going to see it.

Mike

[Lechmere]

Oh dear

[Robert]

Interesting stuff, Siobhan.

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Interesting stuff, Siobhan.

Thanks.
I hope the Cavan connection will lead to something more concrete. I've been contacted by several Ripper researchers already who say they are "on it". For people haven't had a look yet, the link to Francis Tumblety's Irish connections in Co. Cavan is here: http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup...cavan-origins/

Hell's Broth by Mike Hawley
Hey Mike, loved your book. Well done mate.

[mklhawley]

Thanks Siobhan! The complete title is The Ripper's Hellbroth.

Sincerely,
Mike