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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Stephenson, Robert Donston

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  #1  
Old 07-11-2009, 05:41 PM
J. Newman J. Newman is offline
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Default Black magic

Hi,

I'm new to forum.

Having read Edward's book the idea of the black magic rites is interesting.

There is one thing that puzzles me. What would the puropse of the black magic ritual be?

Does anyone here know what Donaldson could hope to establish after the killings>?

Is there some kind of spell that anyone knows about?

Ivor's book is somewhat vague on the purpose of the killings. Can anyone elaborate?

Thanks.
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Old 07-11-2009, 06:09 PM
Suzi Suzi is offline
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Hi J.Newman-

I'm not totally sure why I'm replying to this post- politeness I guess

Can we just try to elaborate on exactly what you are asking here...I assume it is a reference to Ivor Edward's 2003 book 'Jack the Ripper's Black Magic Rituals'

'Donaldson 'eludes me but D'Onston is an ongoing interesting character- Ripper or not!
Come in Mike and Howard (!!!)

As to 'spells'.........................wrong site here friend! But welcome anyway........................

Suz
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Last edited by Suzi : 07-11-2009 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 07-11-2009, 06:31 PM
Mike Covell Mike Covell is offline
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Welcome to casebook J. Newman.

The general idea is that Robert D'Onston Stephenson killed these unfortunate woman at certain points on the map to create a Vesica Piscis, which it is claimed are used in Occult Practices, but this symbol has more religious connections that it does than occult connections. Stephenson himself proposed the theory in his December 1st article to the Pall Mall Gazette.

The second theory is that Robert D'Onston Stephenson, who wrote to the Pall Mall Gazette on December 1st 1888, theorised that the killer could have been taking the organs as part of a ritual. Stephenson quotes from Eliphas Levi's Le Dogme et Rituel de la Haute Magie, using a recipe that includes a certain portion of the body of a harlot.

Translations of Levi's book, however, do not list this certain portion in the recipe that Stephenson quotes!

Surely a black magician would of known this.

The Pall Mall Gazette and other Stephenson related writings can be found on this website under here, http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...d-donston.html
Hope this helps and welcome once again.
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Old 07-11-2009, 07:26 PM
Howard Brown Howard Brown is offline
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Dear J.Newman:

The concept of the Whitechapel Murderer murdering at the behest of Satan or that the murders had some occult, ritualistic purpose are like a shiny new Testarossa you've been lucky enough to win in the Hungarian Sweepstakes.

Problem is, is that the car has no wheels or engine...or steering column...or doors...or even a nice looking Suzi Hanney to sit next to you in the passenger seat for cruisin'. Plus the Hunkies don't have a sweepstakes.

There's no tangible evidence that Stephenson practiced black magic among other things. There's certainly evidence that he wrote about the occult....as well as the topic of religion ( The Patristic Gospels, 1904). No one posits the notion that this man committed anything so much as overt flatulence in a hospital bed for religious reasons...but since it sells books,its far more alluring and profitable to make believe he was some sort of diabolical character...which of course,from the available material, he most certainly wasn't.

If you get a chance, go check out that handsome sumbitch's thread here on the site...How Brown's Nifty Fifty.

Hope this helps.
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Old 07-12-2009, 09:49 AM
J. Newman J. Newman is offline
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Thanks for the replies,

So the consensus is that Edward's 'Black Magic Rituals, John Blake, 2002, does not have much support? And we can dismiss Crowley's thoughts on the subject. Is it all too far-fetched? Or simply too atrractive a thoery?
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  #6  
Old 07-12-2009, 10:58 AM
Mike Covell Mike Covell is offline
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Crowley was in no way the first to come up with the theory, he was just a little boy in 1888.

Arthur Diosy put forth the theory and also claims to have visited the Police to put forth the theory in 1888. Christopher George wrote an excellent article entitled "Diosy and D'Onston: Black Magic and Jack the Ripper" which appeared in Ripperologist, the chapter is also reproduced in the book The Best of Ripperologist.

It is believed that the whole Black Magic theory originated with Mabel Collins, who was alleged to have been Stephenson's lover.
The story goes that Collins told Victoria Cremers the tale in the 1890's and the tale was eventually passed on to Bernard O'Donnell in the 1930's. This became known as the O'Donnell Manuscript, and it can be viewed online at jtrforums.com.

By this time, Betty May had released Tiger Woman, which was released in the 1920's, and in it she claims to have found a box containing bloodstained ties, which Crowley told her were Jack the Ripper's ties, and he was a black magician. Crowley claimed he couldn't reveal the name of the killer, as it would go against the magic!

By the 1960's Crowley had released "Confessions," in which he discusses the Seven bloodstained ties but again refuses to reveal the name of the killer.

A short while later Crowley wrote "Jack the Ripper," this time naming names, but changing the number of ties to five!

If your looking for works on Robert D'Onston Stephenson I would suggest taking a look at the book "The True Face of Jack the Ripper" by Melvin Harris. It is available on Amazon, and worth the read.

I would take the information in both books with a pinch of salt, as it is unsourced and neither feature any references. There are quite a lot of errors in Black Magic Rituals too.

I have the 2003 paperback edition and page 163 alone has numerous mistakes,
Stephenson's birthdate is given as 1842, which is false, he was born in 1841, and even appears in the census!
Stephenson's address is given as Willow House, 60 Church street, but Stephenson was born at 35 Charles street, and did not move into Church street until years later!
He never caught VD from prostitutes,
He never resided near Buck's Row, he was in the London Hospital!
There is no proof he was a military surgeon,
There is no evidence he was arrested once let alone twice for the murders,

And thats just one page!
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Old 07-12-2009, 12:37 PM
Nemo Nemo is offline
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D'Onston's suggestion for the use of the uterus was that it was to be used within a ritual that would summon demons or indeed, Lucifer himself

Candles made from human fat were essential for the ritual

Previous to D'Onston's suggestion, the candles were assumed to be intended for use by thieves. Otherwise known as "soporific" candles, the lighting and carrying of the candle supposedly rendered the carrier invisible and caused everyone within a targeted household to fall asleep

I've been checking out the "Black magic" angle recently and am about to post the sources for D'Onstons "belief"

Suffice to say that D'Onston was not really original in his thoughts and for the criminal to be atacking the uterus specifically would indicate an expectance for the victim to be pregnant - the ultimate target being the unborn (unbaptised) baby, from whose fat candles would be made
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Old 07-12-2009, 02:43 PM
babybird67 babybird67 is offline
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Default surely if the real targets were unborn babies...

the target victim would be those most likely to be carrying them, which would not be, presumably, relatively old prostitutes in very ill-health? Surely MJK's age would have been more typical of the murder victims as a whole rather than her being the exception in this case.

As far as i know, there was no suggestion that any of the victims were pregnant at the times of their deaths.

I'm not convinced at all by the Black Magic angle; i think it's as crimson a fish as the Royal/Mason links, to be honest.
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Old 07-12-2009, 04:24 PM
Suzi Suzi is offline
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Posted the pics on Forums under R O S thread...cheers chaps
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:39 AM
Pettifogger Pettifogger is offline
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Post On the other hand...

I'm not in total agreement with Ivor Edwards assessment but it is an interesting read.

Why not black magic or the occult as motivational impetus for JtR? He could very well have been a psychotic Hannibal Lecter out looking for a late evening meal.
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