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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Social Chat > Other Mysteries > A6 Murders

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  #5131  
Old 12-06-2018, 02:39 PM
cobalt cobalt is offline
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It would be unfair to compare the alibi evidence of the two, to show either that Hanratty was not in Liverpool on 22 August 1961 or that Wallace, who undoubtedly went towards the Menlove Gardens triangle, did so in an ostentatious fashion so that he would have had alibi witnesses.



Fair comment Spitfire, but perhaps some cross-fertilisation might shed some insight on the A6 Case.

The case against Wallace is partly that he telegraphed his movements towards the non-existent address, at one point even asking a policeman for directions, in order to establish an alibi. He certainly seemed to spend a great deal of time and effort in finding a place that simply did not exist. Hanratty did none of this, so could not have been consciously seeking to create an alibi.

Of course there is one major difference: Wallace was perhaps seeking to create an alibi for a crucial time slot, whereas Hanratty was allegedly attempting to develop one rather late after the event. In such a scenario, Hanratty did not want to draw too much attention to himself regarding times and dates. Better that he was seen in the area around the approximate time, apparently acting normally for his chosen lifestyle.

Yet there is one witness statement that backs up Hanratty’s alibi, one that is potentially stronger than either the sweetshop or boarding house elements. That is the statement by Mr. Dutton regarding his being approached by a young Londoner in Rhyl and being offered a watch for sale, a meeting he thinks can be time stamped by his subsequent visit to a post office or bank. Unfortunately, neither his identification of Hanratty nor his certainty over the time and date were ever tested in court. So far as I am aware Hanratty himself never offered up a memory of this meeting, which opens up the probability that it was another person who approached Dutton.

Then again, how many Cockney spivs were operating in Rhyl at that time?
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  #5132  
Old 12-06-2018, 04:10 PM
moste moste is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock Houses View Post
The Julia Wallace case is an intriguing one, Moste. As you will no doubt be aware there was no such thoroughfare as Menlove Gardens East but there were Menlove Gardens West, North and South forming an unusual triangular shape. A stone's throw away from there is a large park on Menlove Avenue where I take my dog most days for his constitutional. There were about 25 to 30 Qualtroughs listed in the Liverpool Electoral Register between 1930 and 1935.
I hope you you won't mind me pointing out that William and Julia were both born, raised and married in the West Riding of Yorkshire, they moved to Liverpool a few years after their marriage.
No , that’s fine, I knew there was a connection in Wallace’s life with Millom Cumberland . It was only my questioning of the rarity of the name Qualtrough ,that had me wondering why would the name Qualtrough come to Wallace’s mind.someone on that thread claimed 18 people on the 1931 census for Liverpool. So I checked the population of the Pool for 1931, guess what,a sudden climb to 846,000 . So I figured hmmm, rare name that.
As for Dutton not being figured in matters in Hanrattys defence ,well. There’s so many question like this aren’t there?
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  #5133  
Old 12-07-2018, 05:40 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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Then again, how many Cockney spivs were operating in Rhyl at that time?
Unfortunately, Mr Dutton never described the accent of the man he claimed tried to sell him a watch as having a 'cockney' accent. He said it was 'more like a dialect, Irish or cockney or a mixture of the two'. In fact, Hanratty had a perfectly natural cockney accent without a trace in it of his Irish parentage.
Also, unlike his mentioning of trying to sell a watch to Mr Kempt on the steps of the Liverpool billiards hall, Hanratty never claimed to have tried to sell a watch to anyone on the street in Rhyl. Had he done so, things may well have gone his way.

As to your question, Cobalt, when I was a nipper I spent a couple of miserable holidays in Rhyl with my parents in the 1950's, and there were spivs of all breeds and accents all over the shop - you could hardly cross the road without being asked to buy some piece of junk.

Re: Wallace, I'm not at all well-read on this case, but wasn't there a company called Qualtrough's, a plumber of something like that, not far from Wallace's house? With a large sign on the front of the premises? I'm sure I've seen a photo of that on these very boards.

Graham
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  #5134  
Old 12-07-2018, 09:57 AM
cobalt cobalt is offline
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As to your question, Cobalt, when I was a nipper I spent a couple of miserable holidays in Rhyl with my parents in the 1950's, and there were spivs of all breeds and accents all over the shop - you could hardly cross the road without being asked to buy some piece of junk.


Interesting snapshot of times past. I think they upped sticks and moved to Tenerife in the 1980s, offering time-share deals from every street corner.
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  #5135  
Old 12-07-2018, 12:50 PM
Graham Graham is offline
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Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
As to your question, Cobalt, when I was a nipper I spent a couple of miserable holidays in Rhyl with my parents in the 1950's, and there were spivs of all breeds and accents all over the shop - you could hardly cross the road without being asked to buy some piece of junk.


Interesting snapshot of times past. I think they upped sticks and moved to Tenerife in the 1980s, offering time-share deals from every street corner.
I'm not sure they did, Cobalt. 25-odd years ago I had a couple of customers in Rhyl, and because of my interest in the A6 Case I usually had a bit of a stroll round when I was there. The spivs were still at it! Before I got out of my car I was asked if I'd like a nice watch! But this bloke wasn't cockney - wasn't English, either. I hope I'm not insulting the good people of Rhyl here...so I'll just go on to add that there as many, if not more, spivs in and around Margate, where we also went for holidays in the 50's and early 60's.

Graham
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